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Thread: on guns

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    My point was that it was pretty important to the founding fathers, and I think their philosophy was less based on current events, and more on universal truths about societies and governments.

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson

    "A free people ought to be armed."
    - George Washington

    These aren't "for the time being" statements. This still holds true. Hitler said that to subjugate a people, you must first disarm them. He was right.

    And what has changed? What is it about guns that bother you so much? The United States doesn't even rank in the top 100 countries for murders per capita. And if someone is hell bent on murdering as many innocent people as possible, they'll find a way. Timothy McVeigh, or any number of catastrophic terrorist acts. There's TONS more examples all around the world, not a single gun used.
    It was important to them because they had personally lived under the distant rule of the Brits and found it aggravating to be denied the use of weapons to protect themselves. I am not sure that the right to have guns is on the same level as the concept that all men are created equally.

    What has changed? If it is not currently seen then I am too much of a mere mortal to point it out in totality.

    I never said that guns bother me. I was solely discussing that I find the distillation down of the pro gun argument is often... lacking in a real vision for how it interacts with the current world. Instead the fall back of: well, this is how it is has been since the beginning of time... isn't particularly satisfying.

  2. #42
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I never said that guns bother me. I was solely discussing that I find the distillation down of the pro gun argument is often... lacking in a real vision for how it interacts with the current world. Instead the fall back of: well, this is how it is has been since the beginning of time... isn't particularly satisfying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer "Smith"
    I'm going to say something here that is going to raise some hackles. Then I'm going to explain my statements and, hopefully, make everyone buy it. Here we go. Ready?

    Buy a gun. Get a bat. Own some weapon and have enough skill to use it to save your own life and the lives of your family members. DO NOT RELY ON THE POLICE TO SAVE YOUR LIFE FOR YOU.

    Wait. What's this? What heresy are you speaking of? Officer Smith, are you really telling me not to rely on the police to protect me? What about that "Protect and Serve" horse shit plastered all over the sides of their patrol cars? Aren't they SUPPOSED to protect me?

    Now, let me explain.
    http://officersmith.blogspot.com/201...lp-police.html
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    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  3. #43
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Another gun thread.

    In b4 page 20.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Another gun thread.

    In b4 page 20.
    Mr. Anti Gun created the thread
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  5. #45
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Mr. Anti Gun created the thread
    Yep. It doesnt matter - if you are anti something you are just as obsessed with it as if you are pro something.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Yep. It doesnt matter - if you are anti something you are just as obsessed with it as if you are pro something.
    Tis true. Although I'm pretty passionate about my beliefs, I'm mostly just bored.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  7. #47
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Yep. It doesnt matter - if you are anti something you are just as obsessed with it as if you are pro something.
    It's also a good sign of obsession when people can't differentiate between depicting a gun and being pro-gun. Also, when people don't realize that banning pictures of things as an answer to that thing can be more damaging than the thing itself.

  8. #48
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Tis true. Although I'm pretty passionate about my beliefs, I'm mostly just bored.
    And since Im posting in here, I am part of the bunch.

  9. #49
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Please.
    This is not about reasoning ability. There are dumbasses on both sides.
    It's about values and who you trust.

    [edit to add: Also, the extent to which you're easily emotionally manipulated by extremely rare, but horrific tragedies.]
    The murder and gun death statistics in the US compared to other countries make a pretty convincing argument to me. Most developed countries don't have the numbers in those categories we have. Most of them don't have the poverty we have, either, but I don't think having so many guns all over the place helps. They are just too easy to kill with.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    The murder and gun death statistics in the US compared to other countries make a pretty convincing argument to me. Most developed countries don't have the numbers in those categories we have. Most of them don't have the poverty we have, either, but I don't think having so many guns all over the place helps. They are just too easy to kill with.
    Numbers mean nothing themselves. It's how you value those numbers compared to other things.

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