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Thread: on guns

  1. #121
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    To be perfectly honest, your constant hatred spewing of the US and in particular dealing with gun issues doesn't just seem like you complaining about the issues at hand with it, but making fun of the US and those who inhabit it for being stupid, and "unenlightened", really with no intention of doing anything other than talk down upon it. If that's the case, that's horribly unproductive and is only going to make people mad. That serves no good purpose at all. Maybe you don't intend that, but it certainly comes across that way. One must specefic in their wording if they wish to address a group in a harsh accusatory manner. If you're goal is to "educate" people, this is not how to do it. All you succeed in doing is pissing people off and coming across as snotty and know-it-allish, which makes people turn off and not receive the message you want to send to others. If you really want people to listen, you need to change tactics.

    That, and you cited no sources for your remarks. Given your history, and the strength of your opinions, what you say is often not take seriously as representitive of Australia. So really, without any citations showcasing what you're claiming, people are just going to dismiss your comments as you just being you. Anytime anyone speaks of themselves or another aspect as being morally superior (which you do) it's never ends well.

    You speak of this this stuff so often, so frequently, in such a patronizing demeaning way that no one listens. You turn people off with the manner in which you go about it. To the point where I think it is apt to use this (again) when you speak of it, this is what crosses peoples minds:

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  2. #122
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    Default Integrity and Belonging

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    To be perfectly honest, your constant hatred spewing of the US and in particular dealing with gun issues doesn't just seem like you complaining about the issues at hand with it, but making fun of the US and those who inhabit it for being stupid, and "unenlightened", really with no intention of doing anything other than talk down upon it. If that's the case, that's horribly unproductive and is only going to make people mad. That serves no good purpose at all. Maybe you don't intend that, but it certainly comes across that way. One must specefic in their wording if they wish to address a group in a harsh accusatory manner. If you're goal is to "educate" people, this is not how to do it. All you succeed in doing is pissing people off and coming across as snotty and know-it-allish, which makes people turn off and not receive the message you want to send to others. If you really want people to listen, you need to change tactics.

    That, and you cited no sources for your remarks. Given your history, and the strength of your opinions, what you say is often not take seriously as representitive of Australia. So really, without any citations showcasing what you're claiming, people are just going to dismiss your comments as you just being you. Anytime anyone speaks of themselves or another aspect as being morally superior (which you do) it's never ends well.

    You speak of this this stuff so often, so frequently, in such a patronizing demeaning way that no one listens. You turn people off with the manner in which you go about it. To the point where I think it is apt to use this (again) when you speak of it, this is what crosses peoples minds:

    I am certainly not here to win a popularity contest.

    From the moment I arrived my very style of writing was attacked, the very feelings of Australians are regularly insulted by Americans as though this is the most natural thing in the world.

    I have just received not one but two Warnings. Plainly they want to shut me up or get rid of me.

    Fortunately integrity is more important to me than belonging.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I am certainly not here to win a popularity contest.

    From the moment I arrived my very style of writing was attacked, the very feelings of Australians are regularly insulted by Americans as though this is the most natural thing in the world.

    I have just received not one but two Warnings. Plainly they want to shut me up or get rid of me.

    Fortunately integrity is more important to me than belonging.

    The reason your style of writing is attacked is because it's very vauge and can be wildly misinterpreted as hostile, snide, passive aggressive, etc. whether or not you intend it. I understand you like your own personal style and have integrity attached to it. But there is a time and a place for everything. I know you like metaphor and flow, but by it's nature it's not clear or requires more mental effort than one wishes to use to understand it. Sometimes, the message might require the individual to change their naturally inclined approach. There are plenty of times I have to do that. I'll have political discussions where I "have" to introduce an argument "fairly", and oh how I just won't want to. I'll see one side as totally stupid and idiotic and not even *worthy* of being mentioned. But out of fairness, and for the sake of getting others to learn and really think about something, I have to change how I explain something. This is something everyone needs to do at one point or another. Otherwise, we'll meet resistance.

    Integreity and belonging are kind of linked in this context though. If you stick too strongly to one side, you'll either lose your sense of self, or be unable to fit in, and ultimately ignored (or worse hated) with no purpose. It's a balance.

    Finally, the insult of one side does not give permission of the other to go back and insult the other. The eye for an eye method doesn't work well.
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  4. #124
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    What you might like to consider is this: in Australian politics when they start laughing at you, you are finished politically.

    For instance, they tried to introduce a landed aristocracy into Oz, but rather than having a revolution USA style, we laughed at them. So a landed aristocracy was removed, not with the gun, but with laughter.

    So laughter in Oz in not a trivial matter, our national sense of humour is deprecatory, and we are starting to laugh at the USA even on our National Broadcaster.

    This is more than just a straw in the wind as our senior Conservative is advocating an end to the alliance with the USA.

    This would impact your intelligence gathering and your security in Asia, as well as being a political disaster.

    No doubt you can succeed in silencing the voice of an ally, after all, who likes to be laughed at.

  5. #125
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    Out of fairness I won't derail your thread any further (likely shouldn't have in the first place but I wanted to point out a long standing pattern), and you seem to not want to discuss what I said here anyway. I'd be happy to PM about it though (the matter of discussion style; I care not to discuss direct political issues), if you're interested, shoot me one.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    The reason your style of writing is attacked is because it's very vauge and can be wildly misinterpreted as hostile, snide, passive aggressive, etc. whether or not you intend it. I understand you like your own personal style and have integrity attached to it. But there is a time and a place for everything. I know you like metaphor and flow, but by it's nature it's not clear or requires more mental effort than one wishes to use to understand it. Sometimes, the message might require the individual to change their naturally inclined approach. There are plenty of times I have to do that. I'll have political discussions where I "have" to introduce an argument "fairly", and oh how I just won't want to. I'll see one side as totally stupid and idiotic and not even *worthy* of being mentioned. But out of fairness, and for the sake of getting others to learn and really think about something, I have to change how I explain something. This is something everyone needs to do at one point or another. Otherwise, we'll meet resistance.

    Integreity and belonging are kind of linked in this context though. If you stick too strongly to one side, you'll either lose your sense of self, or be unable to fit in, and ultimately ignored (or worse hated) with no purpose. It's a balance.

    Finally, the insult of one side does not give permission of the other to go back and insult the other. The eye for an eye method doesn't work well.
    For heavens' sake, I don't want to fit in.

    I am interested in discovery, which, by its nature, doesn't fit in.

    Teenagers want to fit in, want to be accepted by their peers, grownups become independent and discover new things: new styles and new ideas, and new feelings.

    New styles, new ideas and new feelings are experienced as a threat to those desperate to belong.

    They try to force their conformity on grownups, and in the consumer culture, they largely succeed.

  7. #127
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    Well, I appreciate you taking the one bit of advice to heart and starting your own legitimate thread on this.

    Talk more about this "laughing" thing. I have no idea, culturally. I think Eastern cultures would hate getting laughed at due to the idea of "Face." The United States is a mixed bag; on one hand, we do a lot of parody and satire of each other, yet at the same time some people don't take well to getting laughed at since it can come off as marginalization or mocking their views. I think getting laughed at here just stirs people up.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Out of fairness I won't derail your thread any further (likely shouldn't have in the first place but I wanted to point out a long standing pattern), and you seem to not want to discuss what I said here anyway. I'd be happy to PM about it though (the matter of discussion style; I care not to discuss direct political issues), if you're interested, shoot me one.
    I never PM as a matter of principle.

    And look mate, if this is my thread everything you say is germaine and nothing is off topic.

    What I am interested in is this: does my post inspire you to a creative response, and does your post inspire me to a creative response.

    So I am only interested in creativity, I have absolutely no interest in fitting in.

    I mean my first question would be: fitting into what?

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    What you might like to consider is this: in Australian politics when they start laughing at you, you are finished politically.

    For instance, they tried to introduce a landed aristocracy into Oz, but rather than having a revolution USA style, we laughed at them. So a landed aristocracy was removed, not with the gun, but with laughter.

    So laughter in Oz in not a trivial matter, our national sense of humour is deprecatory, and we are starting to laugh at the USA even on our National Broadcaster.

    This is more than just a straw in the wind as our senior Conservative is advocating an end to the alliance with the USA.

    This would impact your intelligence gathering and your security in Asia, as well as being a political disaster.

    No doubt you can succeed in silencing the voice of an ally, after all, who likes to be laughed at.
    In regards to this, I want to first state (if you don't already know) I don't exactly agree with a lot of my governments practices, in fact, a good number of people don't here. I try and be pragmatic about things and push my "ideal" views to "practical" which ultimately makes me appear more conservative than I am. At my core I am quite anti gun, anti war etc. As I have said before, your core values, and mine are surprisingly similar. Right down to the new age bit you've mentioned in the past. I find myself agreeing "in principal" but disagreeing because of presentation and context.

    The issue here is there is a lot of "heresay" without much substance: no citations. Which is why I have a hard time taking it at face value.

    Let's assume for a second though that what you say is the case. Could I blame people in Australia or another country for making fun of the US for these sorts of things? Hardly! In fact I'd sort of expect it. The US does some REALLY dumb things sometimes, I'm quite ashamed of some of the stuff our government does because of several idiots in power. Countries make fun of each other a decent amount all of the time. They see tidbits from the media and get a narrow focused picture on what it's like that isn't exactly "wrong" but it has so much myopia that it actually can be considered wrong by omission of context, so it's not always warrented. The fact of the matter though is, making fun of people might be "reasonable" but it doesn't make it right.

    And yes I agree that if alliances with Australia and the US were cut there'd be some pretty strong difficulties in asia. I don't see that happening though. I haven't seen any media reports suggesting ties being snipped.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, I appreciate you taking the one bit of advice to heart and starting your own legitimate thread on this.

    Talk more about this "laughing" thing. I have no idea, culturally. I think Eastern cultures would hate getting laughed at due to the idea of "Face." The United States is a mixed bag; on one hand, we do a lot of parody and satire of each other, yet at the same time some people don't take well to getting laughed at since it can come off as marginalization or mocking their views. I think getting laughed at here just stirs people up.
    Look Malificent, let me whisper in your ear, you have given me a Warning which I take seriously, and now I am passing on a warning from Oz. Deprecatory laughter in Oz is not only humourous but also a serious warning.

    And it is a warning you ignore at your peril. You have lost three wars in a row, Vietnam, Iraq and Afganisgtan, and so we are reluctant to join you in a fourth war with China. This will have enormous repercussions. Frankly it is in your interests to listen to an ally.

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