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  1. #101
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post

    Do you agree with the sentence? 1,000 lashes? There's not going to be any skin left after that.
    I really think they dropped the ball on this one. Should have learned from the marketing tactics and advertised it as, Only 999 lashes

    Could've had the consumer-base whipped.

  2. #102
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    1. I never heard such rubbish. It's very dangerous to quote the prophet haphazardly and pull randomness off of websites. Number 1 is completely and utterly false. But I guess if you are wanting to go out of your way to prove Islam a vile faith- you will find yourself on vile websites that help you towards your goal.

    Read this instead: Did Prophet Muhammad kill apostates who convert to another religion? | Faith in Allah الإيمان بالله

    2. Disturbingly amount of Islamic scholars claims Muslims shoud murder people? Give me a break. For your information Einstein- Islam does not rely on clerics like other faiths. There is a path from the human being to his Creator. Period. Just because there are wack jobs out there- and there always will be when you are dealing with a leading religion with 1.6 billion followers, does not mean the faith itself teaches these things.

    Seriously- you are wasting my time. If you are not having true, unbiased and realistic dialogue with me- then stop posting at me. Thanks.
    My initial assumption was actually that there would be little difference between Islam and other world religions; subsequent education (not the least of which were several university classes taught by either a Muslim or a man married to a presumably theologically liberal Muslim woman, and associated assigned readings) convinced me I was wrong. Unlike you, I did not choose to simply ignore credible scholarly sources that implied uncomfortable conclusions in favor of extrapolating upon anecdotal experiences with Western Muslims I have personally met.

    The citation is a much better response, even if you failed to also disavow the death penalty for adulterers, and I hope that similar interpretations gain more favor among Muslims. It does not, however, address the fact that huge numbers of Muslims, in contrast to adherents of all other world religions, support the death penalty for apostasy, and that such interpretations have long-established precedent and support in all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence (and the existence of Shariah law, of any interpretation, pretty much ensures that Islamic scholars-functionally the same as 'clerics'-actually have more impact on their religion than is the case with other religions in the modern world). In other words, there is a dire need for a global Islamic reform movement, which isn't going to happen so long as Muslims live in denial over the extent of religious extremism in the Muslim world.

  3. #103
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    In other words, there is a dire need for a global Islamic reform movement, which isn't going to happen so long as Muslims live in denial over the extent of religious extremism in the Muslim world.
    Yeah, this.

    Christianity was, during the middle ages, worse than Islam is today. However Christianity has had its reforms and its becoming a rather tolerant faith.

    Now, its eniterily possible to have the same thing happen to Islam, problem is, its not happening at this point(which isnt to say it cant happen).

  4. #104
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    For a short time at Mecca, Mohammed made a peaceful religion and garnered 150 followers. But then Mohammed moved to Medina and changed Islam to a religion of Jihad and swept violently across the world from Spain to Africa to India and Indonesia.
    So Islam knows in its bones that a peaceful Islam had very little success but violent Jihad captured the world.
    And ask any Islamic scholar today and they will tell you the violent verses from the time in Medina overide the peaceful verses from Mecca.
    Ummmm- the powers in affect attempting to kill the prophet. If he went to war, it was in self defense. Taking a life is like taking all of mankind. He instructed everyone eve if you are about to be killed- if you can survive and spare your attacker, do so. Jihad means inner struggle. It does not mean war. Epic fail in your history lesson.
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  5. #105
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I have hated Islam ever since I read the moronic and cruel Hadith teachings about dogs (I have two dogs). For example:

    From Bukhari Vol. 4, #540

    Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

    From Abu Dawud #2839

    Abd Allah B. Mughaffal reported the apostle of Allah as saying: Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.

    The Hadith's note for #2839 says "The prophet did not order the killing of all the dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them."

    From Muslim #1032

    Abu Dharr reported: The Messenger of 'Allah said: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, his prayer would be cut off by (passing of an) ass, woman, and black Dog. I said: O Abu Dharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguish it from the red dog and the yellow dog? He said: O, son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil.


    I've studied hadith extensively and never EVER heard this.

    Animals are treated humanely in Islamic teaching.

    Hadith said keep dogs out of the home for cleanliness purposes. To keep them outside in their own barn type arrangement.

    What is with ALL of the propaganda you guys post? Seriously!!!!! Amazing.
    It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are. ~e.e. cummings

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  6. #106
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    My initial assumption was actually that there would be little difference between Islam and other world religions; subsequent education (not the least of which were several university classes taught by either a Muslim or a man married to a presumably theologically liberal Muslim woman, and associated assigned readings) convinced me I was wrong. Unlike you, I did not choose to simply ignore credible scholarly sources that implied uncomfortable conclusions in favor of extrapolating upon anecdotal experiences with Western Muslims I have personally met.

    The citation is a much better response, even if you failed to also disavow the death penalty for adulterers, and I hope that similar interpretations gain more favor among Muslims. It does not, however, address the fact that huge numbers of Muslims, in contrast to adherents of all other world religions, support the death penalty for apostasy, and that such interpretations have long-established precedent and support in all major schools of Islamic jurisprudence (and the existence of Shariah law, of any interpretation, pretty much ensures that Islamic scholars-functionally the same as 'clerics'-actually have more impact on their religion than is the case with other religions in the modern world). In other words, there is a dire need for a global Islamic reform movement, which isn't going to happen so long as Muslims live in denial over the extent of religious extremism in the Muslim world.
    There is a humanity reform movement needed- not explicity an "Islamic" one. Since when is one faith parts of the country happen to be born into subject said faith and anyone ascribing it to be responsible for any person's behavior that even remotely associates with it?

    Whatever belief or non-belief you ascribe yourslf to----I hereby make you wholly responsible for the upkeep and subjective moral behavior of all OTHER similiarly aligned individuals WORLDWIDE and I will come onto social media and blast you with accusations for any news story about any human being ever- who remotely believes as you believe and demand that you CHANGE THEM.

    Listen to yourself?

    Your ridiculous thought process is the same as those that stall the advancement of of humanity. Tunnel visioned and bigotted. Give me a break.
    It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are. ~e.e. cummings

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  7. #107
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    I personally am deeply disgusted by religion and religious ideas in general. Religion needs to die already, the time has long since passed. Until religion is eradicated and forgotten, travasties such as this will continue.

    @Starry will agree...
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
    and
    SCIENCE ENTHUSIAST


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  8. #108
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I really think they dropped the ball on this one. Should have learned from the marketing tactics and advertised it as, Only 999 lashes

    Could've had the consumer-base whipped.
    Yeah it's like 99p instead of £1...Oh wow I'm saving a single lash...THE MERCY IS OVERWHELMING.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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