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  1. #1
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Default Ending The Educational Industrial Complex In America

    What all this means is that firing an Exocet missile into the heart of the American higher-education establishment should qualify the trigger man for a place on Mount Rushmore.

    Here’s the missile: Republicans commit, as part of their 2016 platform, to (1) canceling all student loans owed to the federal government and paying off all loans owed to private institutions and (2) eliminating all federal aid, grants, support, etc. to postsecondary educational institutions. It’s a package deal: no elimination of aid, no cancellation of debts.

    Hmm. I wonder how the 38 million people with student-loan debt would vote on that issue. In 2012, 60% of Millennials voted for Obama. It doesn’t have to be that way.

    You ask, how can the country possibly afford to cancel (“forgive” sounds too religious, doesn’t it?—might cause it to be overruled by the Supreme Court) a trillion dollars in debt? And how can we afford to do that now, in this time of financial distress? Isn’t that irresponsible?

    Actually, it’s not—I wouldn’t have suggested it if it were.

    Total federal aid to higher education (if you call courses in human sexuality and women’s studies higher education) is about $99 billion—$34 billion in grants to the students themselves, and an additional $65 billion in “Direct Loans” subsidy allowances. In addition, the federal government pumps about $40 billion into the system for research, at least $10 billion of which, and perhaps more, could be eliminated without serious consequences. (Approximately $600 million goes to Harvard University, which has an endowment now of $30 billion. About $46 million goes to Brandeis University, which reversed its decision to grant an honorary degree to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, for which behavior alone its grants should be cancelled.)
    More here: http://thefederalist.com/2014/05/08/...has-got-to-go/


    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Thoughts?
    That's a pretty radical proposal. I love it.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    So those who are studying or have studied would benefit at the expense of future generations?
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  4. #4
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    So those who are studying or have studied would benefit at the expense of future generations?
    Government backed loans will not help future generations. Some students will be missing out on the grants, though. Hopefully a reinvigorated private sector can make up for that with charitable scholarships.

  5. #5
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Pipe dream, it will never happen, and I do not see republicans supporting this at all. I'm very surprised to see this on a conservative site. Once you read it and see the details of it then it makes sense. Even so I still find this somewhat out of place for them.

    The ones that will will definitely be in the minority. I'd also have a hard time taking this proposal seriously no matter which side or individual proposed it until there was serious uniform backing and it'd be clear that it would be done.

    All that said, I do support it. Some of the language and ideology is out of alignment from what I think, but that's beside the point. The educational system is too bloated, too fluffed up, and too big of a focus. Don't get me wrong, I am an academic and will likely be making my career in it. I see the value and importance of a college education, and I would like to see as many people as possible persue it. However, only those who will actually do well with it and garner tangible benefit. There needs to be a stronger focus on trade schools, and other career paths that, perhaps less glamarous, are great ways to make a living. Because of the importance and focus society puts on college, alternatives are looked down upon. When I say social important, I mean the social aspect of it. The experience, fun, sports, etc. All of the stuff that really isn't the core of higher education is what a lot of attention is drawn to, and that's what a lot of people are actually seeking. The education is sort of considered an aside for a considerable chunk.

    The biggest issue I see with this, is it's really a sudden lurch to do this all at once. Too much so. Those who are already out of the system would benefit the most, and those who are in the system, would likely get screwed. If all aid was canceled along with debt canceled. A huge number of individuals currently in college wouldn't be able to finish due to the inability to get loans. Simply put, it would cause mass chaos and havoc for a lot of individuals and families. It would have to be more carefully done. This could also really mess up the functionality of academia in a way that couldn't be easily fixed. The timing of this would have to be well thought out. I'd like to a higher education funding model that is commonly seen in some european countries instead of this, but I seriously doubt that could be preformed here in the US.

    Finally, this blog seems to imply liberals won't get behind it. I disagree. The fundementals of this they could get behind. Perhaps a bit of negotiating would happen with timing and exucution, but this is something I see both sides wanting (assuming other republicans get behind this which I am dubious of). I mean, I am a liberal, and I support this idea.
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    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Government backed loans will not help future generations.
    Why not? Most people don't have the kind of money tuitions cost and higher education is rather important for good salary.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  7. #7
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Why not? Most people don't have the kind of money tuitions cost and higher education is rather important for good salary.
    You didn't really read the article, did you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Government backed loans will not help future generations. Some students will be missing out on the grants, though. Hopefully a reinvigorated private sector can make up for that with charitable scholarships.
    That's a fantasy. The same sort of Randian attitude that business will fix all of society's ills if the pesky elected officials would just get off their backs.

    That would likely benefit a very small number of students. Marginal, at best.

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    Well, elimination of the federal government from post-secondary education might mean less income for universities --> Less financial aid given by the university itself --> Less motivation to advance to post-secondary institutions --> Lower costs of education --> ...

    I'm not a republican but I would like to watch this unfold.

  10. #10
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    That's a fantasy. The same sort of Randian attitude that business will fix all of society's ills if the pesky elected officials would just get off their backs.

    That would likely benefit a very small number of students. Marginal, at best.
    What's a fantasy? That people unforced by government will actually help the disadvantaged? Damn, you're more cynical than the most hardened Randian.

    Anyway, plenty of those students shouldn't be in college anyway and plenty of pell grant recipients are overall being hurt by attending college because they still have to take out thousands or moRe likely tens of thousands in loans. Not to mention that fact that graduation rates are at around 60% with pell grant recipients having an even lower graduation rate.

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