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  1. #21
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Examples of logical consequences of differences:

    Heart attacks manifest differently in men vs. women, so warning signs will differ
    People with fair complexions sunburn more easily
    People with dyslexia will have more trouble with reading/writing tasks
    Certain ethnic groups are more susceptible to certain diseases
    People with perfect pitch or photographic memory will find some tasks much easier than others do

    No point complaining about any of this, as it is simple reality. Best to understand oneself, ones needs, challenges, and strengths, and address these in such a way as to maximize one's potential.

    Not sure what any of this has to do with Hitler, or xenophobes. We do not cure fear of those different from ourselves by pretending that they are not different.
    Yes, people are different of each other. What it has to do with Hitler, or say, Pol Pot? Why did Pol Pot have people who wore glasses shot? Pol Pot did not wear glasses! Did Pol Pot pretend those who wore glasses were not different? I am sorry, but the answer is no.

  2. #22
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    So, this first semester working at a college library has been enlightening for many reasons and critical to my professional outlook since I am working towards librarianship and serving the greater good. The most worrying observation I have at present, which I really had to see first-hand to believe it was true, is that there remains a shocking number of students entering college that are completely or partially computer illiterate. So much of the curriculum and the student’s academic success hinges on the assumption that they can navigate computers and the internet to complete their coursework that basic digital literacy really should be assessed as part of a student’s pre-enrollment process, and if it is found wanting, it should be made a prerequisite for their studies. It seems wrong for the college to accept the money of students enrolling in costly academic programs when the students lack the tools to succeed in the program. On a daily basis I am helping students that don’t know how to:
    · Print
    · Save files to a USB flash drive
    · Access and compose email
    · Draft and format an MS Word document
    · Perform a web search
    · Distinguish between a Windows (or any OS) user login and a website login
    · Distinguish between filetypes (.jpg, .pdf, .doc, .png)
    · Attach files to emails
    OMG, I get this all the time in my job at the public library but it's mostly with older people age 50+. I do have younger people and students with these questions too, many of them are recent immigrants to the US and they may have came from a poorer county that did not have as much access to technology.

    I also want to add the following I've commonly encountered:
    *How to create a secure password. No, it cannot be the same as your username. No, you cannot just use the word "password" as your password.
    *How to evaluate websites for credibility, the first hit is not always the best one.
    *How use search strategies to find what you want more efficiently. Google is not the only search engine out there.
    *How to copy, paste, undo, etc.
    *Printing. So much paper gets wasted. They don't know they can just print out just the one page they need rather than all 50.

    There's also alot of people, particularly younger people that are savvy with Facebook and You Tube but little else on the computer.
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  3. #23
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Yes, people are different of each other. What it has to do with Hitler, or say, Pol Pot? Why did Pol Pot have people who wore glasses shot? Pol Pot did not wear glasses! Did Pol Pot pretend those who wore glasses were not different? I am sorry, but the answer is no.
    Being shot by someone like Pol Pot is not a logical consequence of difference, it is an arbitrary and manufactured consequence, that has no business being there. The logical consequence of poor eyesight is that one doesn't see as well as others. One addresses that logical consequence by getting glasses/contacts. The logical consequence of wearing glasses is that you are vulnerable to the extent that you must depend on them: break or lose your glasses, and you are back to seeing poorly. My point about not complaining about differences means, in this example: there is no point in complaining about your eyesight, or about the need to maintain glasses. Just get them and wear them and be done with it so you can see.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #24
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Being shot by someone like Pol Pot is not a logical consequence of difference, it is an arbitrary and manufactured consequence, that has no business being there. The logical consequence of poor eyesight is that one doesn't see as well as others. One addresses that logical consequence by getting glasses/contacts. The logical consequence of wearing glasses is that you are vulnerable to the extent that you must depend on them: break or lose your glasses, and you are back to seeing poorly. My point about not complaining about differences means, in this example: there is no point in complaining about your eyesight, or about the need to maintain glasses. Just get them and wear them and be done with it so you can see.
    I shall not get them. You can go ahead and buy a pair of glasses. It will not give you a new sight.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    The most perplexing thing to me is that IME students don't think to google how to achieve these tasks.

    It's like they're so used to not thinking in school but following procedures (because they've come through teach-to-the-test programs) they don't know how to be curious about academic things like they are about literally everything else in their lives. They google how to buy bitcoin to get fake IDs. They google fashion things. They do not google "how to X in MS Word" problems.

    I tell them all the time and even encourage relevant googling in my classroom to link the idea in their brains between internetz and academics, but it is like a deep chasm.
    The bolded bit is exactly what I've encountered: a lack of curiosity and initiative in problem-solving. @Ginkgo Laziness is a fairly timeless accusation directed at the young because it's so often pertinent, but I think that what I am encountering is less about laziness and more about self-directed discovery as an approach not actually occurring to the student.

    Good point Usehername. I had chalked much of this up to technology and the lag of relevant academic rubric, but I wonder now if teach-to-the-test programming is partly to blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    There's also alot of people, particularly younger people that are savvy with Facebook and You Tube but little else on the computer.
    I've seen this talked about in popular news the past couple of years and I've seen it firsthand. Many users are Facebook/Youtube/Pinterest/Instagram/Twitter/<insert popular social service here> literate, but lack a general, abstract understanding of basic computing or how these services are possible. As someone who was dialing up with a 56k modem and posting to bulletin boards in the early 90s, it's hard for me to separate how much of my present computer literacy is the result of my ongoing initiative, and how much is a product of my placement in time and initiation into the earliest forms of online social networks and computing.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  6. #26
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I shall not get them. You can go ahead and buy a pair of glasses. It will not give you a new sight.
    Au contraire. As a wearer of glasses since I was 3, I can attest to the fact that my sight is quite different (and much improved) with glasses rather than without.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #27
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    As someone who was dialing up with a 56k modem and posting to bulletin boards in the early 90s, it's hard for me to separate how much of my present computer literacy is the result of my ongoing initiative, and how much is a product of my placement in time and initiation into the earliest forms of online social networks and computing.
    It might be a placement in time. My family, even though we weren't that rich at the time, got the old computers and CRT monitors. While they weren't always on the computer, I would always fidget around the computer, learning how to plug and play the playstation on the monitor, how to get dos to start certain games (other than going outside to play most of the time.) While we did have a typewriter, it was as if I never really needed to learn how to use the typewriter because we already bought a home printer by then - I've learned to plug and fix the printer too.

    My brother started studying in computer engineering while I was going through middle school, he had all these sound cards, motherboards, RAM, Ethernet cables, and graphics cards in his room. Sometimes when he was changing the pieces in his computer I'd watch him. By high school, I was constantly using the computer for homework, playing games, and installing programs.

    Fast-forward to early college, I got my own computer switched network routers and connections I did mostly by myself (AT&T forced us to buy their damn router.) Decided to switch my computer parts recently, and I had to switch the motherboard and everything.

    Then again, my other siblings, other than my brother, don't know enough about computers.... so I suppose it isn't time. It is more like you have enough interest in computers, or you don't. Most of my sibling just wants a computer that "works" and tend to as my brother to suggest one for them. When one of them, or a friend, gets a virus, it is either my brother or I that fixes it. They one of them wanted to reformat the computer... same thing. It has become something like.... computer issues? Come to either me or my brother to fix them.

    The only people who has ever heard of bitcoins when it started becoming slightly popular (a year ago) was my brother, my soon to be brother in law, and me. Everyone else, including those my age, new nothing whatsoever.

  8. #28
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Au contraire. As a wearer of glasses since I was 3, I can attest to the fact that my sight is quite different (and much improved) with glasses rather than without.
    Do you see the incongruity of your statement?

  9. #29
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Do you see the incongruity of your statement?
    Not at all, which makes me wonder whether you can point it out?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #30
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    The most perplexing thing to me is that IME students don't think to google how to achieve these tasks.

    It's like they're so used to not thinking in school but following procedures (because they've come through teach-to-the-test programs) they don't know how to be curious about academic things like they are about literally everything else in their lives. They google how to buy bitcoin to get fake IDs. They google fashion things. They do not google "how to X in MS Word" problems.
    True. This happened at my job the other day.
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