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  1. #11
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    We also perform library orientations here in the library for professors that request it for their classes. And while I know the students are not enthused about "wasting a day in the library" to learn the difference between an authoritative source and a questionable source, clearly their work demonstrates that they do. Recently we've encountered a problem with students requesting assistance in formatting MS Word documents when it is a class assignment, therefore library staff have been instructed to no longer assist with those types of questions because we are in essence, doing the work for them. Students are being redirected to an open computer lab, local public libraries (because they are not liable for interfering or unfairly aiding students in their coursework, whereas because we are college employees, it can be construed as favoritism or inappropriate intervention), books on how to use MS Office, or to volunteer tutors and so on.

    In the absence of a comprehensive solution to these critical skill gaps, different course professors in English, Biology, Speech Etc. are trying to cover missed ground by incorporating basic computer tasks into the earliest course assignments. This is a temporary workaround as opposed to a solution because time normally dedicated to the subject material is being diverted to basic computer proficiency, or other narrow skillsets like 'how to format a Word document' in order to help the student succeed in the course section.
    I swear to god I learned all that in grade school (the schools I went too weren't all too fancy either, at least, until high school.) If I forgot something, I'll just google it and I wouldn't even need to ask a librarian. I think the only things I ever ask a librarian for is because I can't find a book and to help me double-check the area to make sure it wasn't me who is mistaking not seeing it. Everything else like connecting to the college network and connecting to the printers using my own laptop, I did really easily without even asking for help.

    I've learned in grade school that the more notable sources tend to be .gov, .edu, or .org. Some reputable sources are articles from news organizations like NYTimes and WashingtonPost, journal magazines, and articles from scholars. So I don't know how these people who go to college don't know how to do these things.

    In many cases, I was forced to learn Microsoft Word in high school for simple projects, so if they were around my age and live in America, there really isn't a reason to not know these things.

  2. #12
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I often need to explain such things to people in a group I volunteer with, but then most of them are over 40. It is surprising and disappointing to hear even the younger set are challenged in this area.


    When I started college, I had to take a test in basic programming, not just general computer use. If I didn't pass, I had to take a half-semester-long extra course to learn. Same for basic statistics. I had no problem passing either test, but the requirement definitely was there, and enforced.


    Courses that basically teach you how to use some application like MS Office are fairly useless, for the reasons you mention. Learning your way around a computer, on the other hand, will enable you to teach yourself whatever new program or app comes your way.


    Don't get me started on this. More idiots indeed. Perhaps they are not really idiots, but they are not given the opportunity (i.e. need) to understand things, and thus remain ignorant of their own tools and dependent on others.

    This is a significant part of the problem. In my area, kids do use computers from elementary school on, but they are generally treated as black boxes. Most teachers don't know how to deal with issues that come up, and the kids without individual interest in computers or training at home never learn how to navigate the innards.


    Old-time secretaries did indeed earn their keep. Secretaries work for bosses, though, and sometimes entire departments/offices. These folks should be intelligent, too - intelligent enough to use their computer, just as the secretary could use her typewriter and dictaphone. If you can't learn to use the tools of your job, better find a different job.
    Computor skills has nothing to do with intelligence. Everybody does not need computor skills, just as everybody does not need a driving license. People have a right to be different.

  3. #13
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Everybody does not need computor skills, just as everybody does not need a driving license. People have a right to be different.
    Unfortunately, you may need computer skills or driving skills to get anywhere.

    That is, unless you live in an area where driving isn't a necessity or that there is a low need for computers. That is hard to come by when a lot of businesses are using basic computers, even if the software for them are like 10+ years old.

  4. #14
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Computor skills has nothing to do with intelligence. Everybody does not need computor skills, just as everybody does not need a driving license. People have a right to be different.
    Computer skills might not have that much to do with intelligence, but the ability to teach yourself the computer skills you do need certainly does. I suspect in many places computer skills are more useful than a drivers license. People have the right to be different, but not to complain about the logical consequences of their differences.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #15
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Unfortunately, you may need computer skills or driving skills to get anywhere.

    That is, unless you live in an area where driving isn't a necessity or that there is a low need for computers. That is hard to come by when a lot of businesses are using basic computers, even if the software for them are like 10+ years old.
    What can I say? Driving isn't necessary around this place. Everything a person needs is right here.
    I am ashamed of my environment and myself. Clean air and water .. I could go on.

  6. #16
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Computor skills does matter I am sure.
    However. Computor "illiteracy" is not illiteracy.
    Computor skills is useful work.
    It is not about comprehending skills.
    Yes, it is illiteracy.

    "Technological literacy" nets you over half a million hits on Google Scholar. Academics research it.

    -

    @iwakar

    The most perplexing thing to me is that IME students don't think to google how to achieve these tasks.

    It's like they're so used to not thinking in school but following procedures (because they've come through teach-to-the-test programs) they don't know how to be curious about academic things like they are about literally everything else in their lives. They google how to buy bitcoin to get fake IDs. They google fashion things. They do not google "how to X in MS Word" problems.

    I tell them all the time and even encourage relevant googling in my classroom to link the idea in their brains between internetz and academics, but it is like a deep chasm.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #17
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    What I actually wonder is, how will these people find any kind of meaningful employment? Most entry level positions nowadays require you to have mid-level programming skills.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  8. #18
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Computer skills might not have that much to do with intelligence, but the ability to teach yourself the computer skills you do need certainly does. I suspect in many places computer skills are more useful than a drivers license. People have the right to be different, but not to complain about the logical consequences of their differences.
    Logical consequences of differences? A vocabulary of Hitler.
    There is "logical consequences" of xenophobia only. We all know what that is.

  9. #19
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Yes, it is illiteracy.

    "Technological literacy" nets you over half a million hits on Google Scholar. Academics research it.

    -

    @iwakar

    The most perplexing thing to me is that IME students don't think to google how to achieve these tasks.

    It's like they're so used to not thinking in school but following procedures (because they've come through teach-to-the-test programs) they don't know how to be curious about academic things like they are about literally everything else in their lives. They google how to buy bitcoin to get fake IDs. They google fashion things. They do not google "how to X in MS Word" problems.

    I tell them all the time and even encourage relevant googling in my classroom to link the idea in their brains between internetz and academics, but it is like a deep chasm.
    Academics are the most ignorant people in the world. They read only the course books. What do they know.

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Logical consequences of differences? A vocabulary of Hitler.
    There is "logical consequences" of xenophobia only. We all know what that is.
    Examples of logical consequences of differences:

    Heart attacks manifest differently in men vs. women, so warning signs will differ
    People with fair complexions sunburn more easily
    People with dyslexia will have more trouble with reading/writing tasks
    Certain ethnic groups are more susceptible to certain diseases
    People with perfect pitch or photographic memory will find some tasks much easier than others do

    No point complaining about any of this, as it is simple reality. Best to understand oneself, ones needs, challenges, and strengths, and address these in such a way as to maximize one's potential.

    Not sure what any of this has to do with Hitler, or xenophobes. We do not cure fear of those different from ourselves by pretending that they are not different.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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