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  1. #21
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    Hmm lets see where it goes..

  2. #22
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Just so you all know that this rebuttal happened.

    I was just talking to someone about privilege discussions on the internet. It's tough because on the one side are people who are offended that people seem to be invalidating their experiences, and/or threatening their sense of worth in some way? As if they have less of a voice than everyone else. And on the other side you have people who seem incapable of holding in how angry they are at what they perceive to be the belligerent ignorance of that first group. It doesn't help that the blogosphere and Tumblr seem to be the places where this debate has flourished most, in the past few years. There's no regulation re: keeping that anger in check. So now both sides think the other side is overly belligerent and too emotional to reason with.

    Anyway, while the rebuttal I linked does fall into the pissed-off trap a few times, it's much less condescending and much more clear than other equivalent articles I've recently found.
    Her rebuttal of his points is good, but I think her overall argument is pitifully unsubstantiated.

    If, as she says, there are all these kinds of privilege intersecting, let me add a few more.

    The privilege of being good looking instead of ugly, the privilege of being non-descript instead of good looking so you don't attract hostility and (if a woman) objectification from co-workers, the privilege of being good-looking instead of non-descript when it comes to marital prospects.

    The privilege of being born athletic instead of average or non-athletic. The privilege of being born smart and of average athleticism in Texas instead of being born smart and highly athletic because the highly athletic kid faces distraction by highschool football and doesn't learn as much and doesn't get as far in life.

    The privilege of being born without genetic diseases.

    The privilege of being a native English speaker in an English-speaking country.

    The privilege of being a person of color who emigrated to America from England when he/she was sixteen, and thus who has an urbane sounding RP accent that changes perceptions.

    When going to Princeton, the privilege of being from a non-religious family (and thus more likely non-religious) instead of from a fundamentalist Christian or Islamic family (and thus more likely to hold unpopular views and to be snubbed as ignorant).

    I could go on and on. There is no meaningful definition to 'white privilege' if we can't measure what effect it has. If the effect is real, we should be able to study it, block for factors like the above that interfere with our study, and figure exactly what it is compared to all the other factors. None of this vague stuff about how people feel; we can study this and get actual numbers . . .

    Since in any given individual case there are a ton of different factors going on and interacting, we don't know the mean, the median, or the standard deviation of the benefit, if any, gained by being white and male for someone born within the last twenty years. We don't know what the distribution looks like.

    There is a numerical value to this which can be found out. We don't need to speculate or assume what the impact is. It could be huge, it could conceivably actually not be statistically significant once the other factors are blocked for. I'm tired of all the assumptions and speculation about something which hasn't been properly studied at all.

    Unless I'm unaware of valid studies. If someone knows of one, let me know! I'll believe in white privilege, male privilege, and all the other kinds of privilege once I see convincing studies that show exactly for who these factors prove a benefit. I don't think we can be expected to just assume it because 'everybody knows that'.

    For example, maybe being white and male is a huge, tremendous benefit if you grow up in the top 1% of the population, but anywhere else it is a net negative. I'm not saying that is likely, but we don't know until we see statistically significant correlations, together with a strong argument for causation.

  3. #23
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Baudelaire
    Checking your privilege doesn't mean anyone is asking you to say "I only have things because I am part of privileged groups". It does mean someone is asking you to say "By position of a characteristic I was born with, I have been helped, or at least not hurt, more than others without this characteristic". It does not mean anyone wants you to apologize for it; it does mean someone is asking for an acknowledgement of the implications of it, either for how it is impacted where you are now, how it might be skewing your perspective or level of knowledge in discussing a subject, or for how the lack of that same privilege may have made things different for someone else.
    I don't owe anyone anything and I don't have to acknowledge my privilege, nor should anyone else have to do so. If you want to play this game, why don't you acknowledge that your education is in part subsidized by hard working taxpayers like myself. YOU OWE ME!!! I want you to thank every worker you encounter because you benefited from their generosity and hard work. See how ridiculous this logic is.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'd love to see every person on this planet who lives on less than $2 per day get internet access and constantly stop any person in America who's ever said "check your privilege" from voicing their opinion.
    I routinely interact with people who earn ... well not less than $2 a day but definitely less than $10 ... and I feel like we could ALL benefit from this, actually. The way people have learned to shut their eyes to anything that might make them feel bad or even faintly culpable is fucking ridiculous.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I routinely interact with people who earn ... well not less than $2 a day but definitely less than $10 ...
    Privileged Bastards.

  6. #26
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Privileged Bastards.
    Many actually seem fairly aware of their "privilege" ... and also the fact that they would like to try and reinforce it as well.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Many actually seem fairly aware of their "privilege" ... and also the fact that they would like to try and reinforce it as well.
    Will to power, baby

    Can't hate a playa for tryin to get that paypuh


  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Will to power, baby

    Can't hate a playa for tryin to get that paypuh

    That's your attempt at meaningful resolution?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    That's your attempt at meaningful resolution?


    What?

    That was fucking brilliant

    Not only did I completely justify my original position, but I did so by teaming up with the lowest man on the totem pole, simultaneously showing how, at our core, whether we're a privileged white male in America, or a slumdog in India, we're really all the same. And, frankly, while the difficulty on that maneuver is about a 10, I'd say me execution was at least a 7.

    I mean, what more do you want from me?

    To become a 9?

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