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  1. #81
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Rather than face the truth of the question.. you keep changing the subject.

    Why is that
    What? That taxes are theft? No, I don't believe that's true.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  2. #82
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    What? That taxes are theft? No, I don't believe that's true.
    WHY don't you believe that's true? WHY? Be Specific.

    Can we agree that theft is the taking of property or money against the will of the owner, whether by force, or some other means?

    Seems like a pretty solid definition.

    And if someone is unwilling to pay taxes, and government then takes them by force, or threat of force... how does this not meet the definition?

    Your only defense of your position seems to be that all countries do it..

    Or that taxes aren't theft because they are called taxes instead.

    Do you have an actual reason that taxation doesn't meet the criteria of being defined as theft?

  3. #83
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    So youre saying its not worthing fighting for because it diesnt exist(yet)? With that type of thinking we'd still be in the stone age.
    Sometimes I think the Stone Age would be better.

  4. #84
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    All that, and the bonus of being prohibited by law from defending yourself?

    Sounds awesome... where do I sign up?
    South Africa made the right moral choice under Mandela and de Klerk, recognised by the world with the shared Nobel Prize for Peace.

    By contrast the USA made the wrong moral choice under George Washington to fight a violent war against lawful authority.

    So why should we be surprised that South Africa has made the right moral choice on gun control, while the USA continues to make the wrong moral choice on gun control.

    As the twig is bent, so grows the tree.

  5. #85
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    South Africa made the right moral choices under Mandela and de Klerk, recognised by the world with the shared Nobel Prize for Peace.

    By contrast the USA made the wrong moral choice under George Washington to fight a violent war against lawful authority.

    So why should we be surprised that South Africa has made the right moral choice on gun control, while the USA continues to make the wrong moral choices of gun control.

    As the twig is bent, so grows the tree.
    Not much I can do with this one, but laugh and shake my head.

  6. #86
    window shopper Typh0n's Avatar
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    @OrderOfTheCaelifera

    The government in the US doesnt exist to serve "we the people" it was seen by the founding fathers as a threat to the people which is why they wrote the Bill of Rights, protection FROM the government. If they hadnt perceived the government as dangerous to the people would they have written a document which lists peoples rights against the government?

  7. #87
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    WHY don't you believe that's true? WHY? Be Specific.
    Like I said, while you and I may not agree where all of our taxes go (we do get some say with a vote) they afford us lots of good services and infrastructures. I've already mentioned several examples of that.

    And paying taxes is how a civilization can function. You want to leave the fire department up to citizens that just volunteer?? I'm sure that will work out well.

    A HUGE portion of this country live in very complex infrastructures that require an experienced group of experts to organize and engineer, for example, proper fire truck routes, organized communication. It's hard shit, man. It SOUNDS like you're saying, "Oh we'll just naturally figure it out eventually."

    And c'mon, you have it pretty sweet in this country. You can say what you want, own cool weapons that most countries can't, it really is one of the most free countries. Even in Germany, you will go to jail for drawing a swastika your backpack. Now do I think that's a good thing to do? NO. But I appreciate that here, you have that right.

    But again, taxes have been around since the dawn of society. There's a reason for that.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  8. #88
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    @OrderOfTheCaelifera

    The government in the US doesnt exist to serve "we the people" it was seen by the founding fathers as a threat to the people which is why they wrote the Bill of Rights, protection FROM the government. If they hadnt perceived the government as dangerous to the people would they have written a document which lists peoples rights against the government?
    In support of your point....

    “Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master".. Geo Washington

  9. #89
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Not much I can do with this one, but laugh and shake my head.
    I quite understand you are suffering the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance on meeting a history that doesn't support your schoolboy propaganda.

    But rather than experiencing the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance, you repress your emotions by laughing them off.

  10. #90
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Love to! But it's difficult when I say "taxes" and then you make a strawman argument saying that taxes are "theft."
    They kind of are. If it is indeed the case that banks loan money to the government to pay back with interest, thus creating an ever increasing debt to them, and our taxes just go to pay that interest, then someone is stealing our money.

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