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  1. #71
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I don't recall saying "all governments are funded by theft." To be honest, that sounds like something you would say.
    Do you want to have an honest conversation, or not?

    I don't want to waste my time, or yours.

  2. #72
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I'm just pointing out the irony. Senator Warren had said this: "I am very proud of my Native American heritage."

    Not only is that a lie or an unproven claim, the evidence that does exist shows that her ancestor persecuted native americans.
    And most white people, if you go back far enough, their ancestors owned slaves.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  3. #73
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    South Africa has passed Gun Control legislation without too much fuss. Now all the USA has to do is to catch up with South Africa.
    Catching up with the land of the burning tire necklace.

    Wouldn't that be swell.

  4. #74
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I don't recall saying "all governments are funded by theft." To be honest, that sounds like something you would say.
    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Do you want to have an honest conversation, or not?

    I don't want to waste my time, or yours.
    Love to! But it's difficult when I say "taxes" and then you make a strawman argument saying that taxes are "theft."
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  5. #75
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Love to! But it's difficult when I say "taxes" and then you make a strawman argument saying that taxes are "theft."
    Can we agree that theft is the taking of property or money against the will of the owner, whether by force, or some other means?

    Seems like a pretty solid definition.

    And if someone is unwilling to pay taxes, and government then takes them by force, or threat of force... how does this not meet the definition?

    Your only defense of your position seems to be that all countries do it..

    Or that taxes aren't theft because they are called taxes instead.

    Do you have an actual reason that taxation doesn't meet the criteria of being defined as theft?

  6. #76
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Are you trying to fuck with my head?
    Me thinks he is.

    ok, this has been a blast but I am done poking sticks and will leave you be
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  7. #77
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Can we agree that theft is the taking of property or money against the will of the owner, whether by force, or some other means?

    Seems like a pretty solid definition.

    And if someone is unwilling to pay taxes, and government then takes them by force, or threat of force... how does this not meet the definition?

    Your only defense of your position seems to be that all countries do it..

    Or that taxes aren't theft because they are called taxes instead.

    Do you have an actual reason that taxation doesn't meet the criteria of being defined as theft?
    Have you ever used a public road? Would you ever call the police?

    Governments are give and take. They protect your ass in many ways, one includes keeping armies from invading. Another, developing cutting edge weapons to deter other countries from using theirs against us. What would you do if your house was on fire? NOT call the fire department and use a bucket?

    If you hate it here so much, why don't you move?
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  8. #78
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Have you ever used a public road? Would you ever call the police?

    Governments are give and take. They protect your ass in many ways, one includes keeping armies from invading. Another, developing cutting edge weapons to deter other countries from using theirs against us. What would you do if your house was on fire? NOT call the fire department and use a bucket?

    If you hate it here so much, why don't you move?
    Rather than face the truth of the question.. you keep changing the subject.

    Why is that?

    I don't object to the order, services, and benefits that an organized community can provide.

    I object to the belief that they cannot exist without theft and initiated force.

    I submit that if people truly value these things, that they will cooperate to bring them about voluntarily.

    And if they are brought about voluntarily, they do not qualify as a government.

    Government is imposed. Participation is not voluntary. Funding is by theft.

  9. #79
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Catching up with the land of the burning tire necklace.

    Wouldn't that be swell.
    C'mon South Africa has recently had a non-violent revolution under Nelson Mandela and Frederick de Klerk. And both Nelson Mandela and Frederick de Kerk shared the Noble Prize for Peace.

    By contrast the USA had a violent revolution against lawful authority. And unlike South Africa, the USA has yet to pass Gun Control legislation.

    So the USA has a long way to go to catch up with South Africa.

  10. #80
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    C'mon South Africa has recently had a non-violent revolution under Nelson Mandela and Frederick de Klerk. And both Nelson Mandela and Frederick de Kerk shared the Noble Prize for Peace.

    By contrast the USA had a violent revolution against lawful authority. And unlike South Africa, the USA has yet to pass Gun Control legislation.

    So the USA has a long way to go to catch up with South Africa.

    From Wikipedia:

    Crime is a prominent issue in South Africa. South Africa has a very high rate of murders, assaults, rapes (adult, child and infant), and other crimes compared to most countries. Most emigrants from South Africa state that crime was a big factor in their decision to leave.[1] The South African Police Service is responsible for managing 1115 police stations across South Africa.[2]

    CAUSES


    The normalisation of violence. Violence comes to be seen as a necessary and justified means of resolving conflict, and males believe that coercive sexual behaviour against women is legitimate.
    The reliance on a criminal justice system that is mired in many issues, including inefficiency and corruption.
    A subculture of violence and criminality, ranging from individual criminals who rape or rob to informal groups or more formalised gangs. Those involved in the subculture are engaged in criminal careers and commonly use firearms, with the exception of Cape Town where knife violence is more prevalent. Credibility within this subculture is related to the readiness to resort to extreme violence.
    The vulnerability of young people linked to inadequate child rearing and poor youth socialisation. As a result of poverty, unstable living arrangements and being brought up with inconsistent and uncaring parenting, some South African children are exposed to risk factors which enhance the chances that they will become involved in criminality and violence.
    The high levels of inequality, poverty, unemployment, social exclusion and marginalisation.


    All that, and the bonus of being prohibited by law from defending yourself?

    Sounds awesome... where do I sign up?

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