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  1. #151
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    'Das Vaterland'.
    Danke

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Of course it's "not your issue".




    You don't see how firearms can be used to defend one's self?



    I'm not sure what your point is?

    Are you suggesting that if the majority wishes you dead.. you should comply?



    My firearms ownership is legitimate.

    If you don't want me to own them... come and take them.
    Just saying your point is based on speculation and propaganda, not fact. Can you provide an example of a country who via mass gun ownership has repelled a revolution or coup de tat, or an oppressive government? You're citing crap told to you as fokelore by the Founding Fathers, who lived in a different time where gun ownership made sense. If somebody stole Sally Hemmings from Jefferson, then he could get a gun and hold him to charge. no police in Jefferson's day, right?

  3. #153
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annexfriesia View Post
    Can you provide an example of a country who via mass gun ownership has repelled a revolution or coup de tat, or an oppressive government?
    That's a good question, and I don't personally have an answer for you. But it's pretty easy to see why any government would NOT want their citizens armed. I don't think that the American government is going to turn into a military state any time soon, or maybe ever, but should that ever happen (50, 100, 150 years from now if we haven't nuked or biologically wiped ourselves out) they would definitely have a fight on their hands. The Southern Poverty Law Center tracked 1,360 radical militias and anti-government groups in 2012, an eightfold increase over 2008, when it recorded 149 such groups. And they're growing. And these are ex-military, ex-law enforcement people. Not just rednecks with rifles and a "Insurgency Tactics for Dummies"

    I've read militia numbers estimated between 60,000-100,000 people. I've also read that the FBI and the DOD estimates that, as it is, they already have contingency plans if these groups decide to qualify as domestic terrorists, like start attacking or bombing cities for some reason (like the Oklahoma city bombing). And estimates, as it is, is that they would be squashed. BUT at the rate they're growing, and with the future unknown, who's to say a group of well armed, well orchestrated militias COULDN'T fight a government that turned on them?

    I currently have zero fear that the american government is going to come haul me off to a gulag because of my political opinions, but I kind of like the idea that should that ever happen, the armed citizens of this country would have a fighting chance.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  4. #154
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us
    This is propaganda.

    Grasping at straws is akin to grasping at guns. Futile.
    “Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.”

    “Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.”

    Quotes taken from: Hitler’s gun control lie debunked

    Hitler didn't take the guns away from the other Germans, just the Jews. Why do you think that is? Could it be because having guns is a threat to tyranny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole
    For instance, if your leader is Head of a Political Party, the Head of State, the Commander in Chief, and President of the United States of America, it understandable he is described as the most powerful man in the world. And so it is understandable the people arm themselves against him.
    Thank you. This is exactly correct. The 2nd amendment was put in place as a check and balance against both a tyrannical government and a tyrannical majority/mob.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba
    If one signle demographic is responsible for most of the homicides, wouldn't it make sense that there's something wrong with their lives? I mean you could help them with poverty issues. It might require you to cut down on number of cars you own, but hey, less people get violently killed.
    Obviously, there is something wrong with their lives. Many of us think it's the broken family; a large majority of criminals are raised in broken homes by single mothers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba
    From what I've perceived, the most common reason for conflicts between castes/demographics/nationalities is the gaping gap between haves and have-nots. Taxation and goverment can be an effective tool to fight that.
    There is very little inter-racial murder. People in Detroit and Chicago are being killed by people of the same race. I agree that government can be an effective law enforcement tool to fight crime. Under Mayor Dinkins, New York City routinely had over 2,000 murders/year. Under Mayor Giuliani's reforms, that murder rate dropped to 700 murders/year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba
    I believe that leaders in europe have a lot less power than leaders in the US. With the power distributed between multiple people, it's more unlikely to have malevolent leaders work efficiently.
    This is why we can't disarm. The President can single-handedly (by executive order) round up Americans and put them in prison camps without trial indefinitely, as FDR did with Japanese-Americans. The Supreme Court actually ruled that the President had that authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba
    I believe it's mostly the gangs that produce these high homicide rates. Gangs are usually made of young, poor and neglected males who have little chance in succeeding in life financially. Gang provides them what the society can't, kinship, protection and future.
    This is true. One thing we can do is decriminalize marijuana and think about legalizing all drugs. That'll reduce the drug-related murders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Habba
    Eliminating the poverty would be the best way to get rid of illegal and dangerous guns
    The Democratic Party relies on poverty-stricken people who are dependent on government aid to remain in power. They've fought against multiple efforts to reduce poverty such as letting poor kids go to better schools (school choice).
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  5. #155
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We are forced to ask, why is the Government of the USA not a liberal democratic Government?

    Why do the people of the USA so distrust their own Government?

    Is there something wrong with the Constitution of the USA?

    Or is there something wrong with the culture of the USA?

  6. #156
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post

    Why do the people of the USA so distrust their own Government?
    Have you not been keeping up with our domestic spy program or the NSA, or Edward Snowden? He's this guy, that did some stuff. It was in the news.

    I am not a part of any anti-government militia. I feel pretty safe, pretty free, pretty happy. You won't find me bitching much, if at all about our government. But when you are the number 1 super power of the world, that's a lot of fucking pressure. So the government does police the world and start questionable wars. Sometimes I think it's ill intentions, sometimes I think it's preemptive strikes against people that want to bomb us or our allies (like north korea, although I think they're all bark).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Is there something wrong with the Constitution of the USA?
    The Constitution is totally rad. It's when the government violates the Constitution, or when the people perceive that it's violated, that everyone freaks out. Or the right-wing does. Sometimes I think they make good points, sometimes I think they're WAY over the top paranoid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Or is there something wrong with the culture of the USA?
    I think that we are Xenophobic. And not for very good reasons. 30% of Americans have passports. Part of that is our geographical isolation. The other part? I don't really know. A lot of people are born in rural areas, like the south or midwest. And leaving that little comfort bubble to travel is terrifying to many. This country is massive. Australia is too, but no one really lives in the bush.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  7. #157
    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Why do the people of the USA so distrust their own Government?
    Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (2 Corinthians 3:17). This establishes the morality of liberties. Gun ownership is a liberty. Restricted liberties of individual citizens may indicate less presence of God and less morality.

    But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men (John 2:24). This establishes that we should not trust man. It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man (Psalm 188:8). Putting confidence in government is placing confidence in man, right? You're either relying/trusting God to take care of you, or you're relying on the government/man. Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation (Psalm 146:3). Government officials could be considered modern day princes, who we should not trust. If we give them power, that means we're trusting them with it, and we shouldn't. Therefore, restricting government power is a Christian belief...From my point of view, I'd wonder whether there was something wrong with the culture of Japan that citizens trust their government so much.

  8. #158
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    Now the Lord is that Spirit
    I think that's the scary part. US is lead by religious fundamentalists. Link.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  9. #159
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (2 Corinthians 3:17). This establishes the morality of liberties. Gun ownership is a liberty. Restricted liberties of individual citizens may indicate less presence of God and less morality.
    Jesus and guns - this strikes me as a step too far.

  10. #160
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    I'd wonder whether there was something wrong with the culture of Japan that citizens trust their government so much.
    Japan today has the Emperor System.

    At the end of WW II Australia wanted to put the Emperor on trial for war crimes, but the Americans disregarded their ally and refused to put the Emperor on trial. The result is that the Emperor System persists in Japan.

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