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  1. #91
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    And if you opened your goddamn eyes you'd see that some of our ancestors were opposed to slavery & that many lost their lives while fighting to end oppression of Americans. Not every Colonial American family supported slavery, some gave all to help enable that all Americans would someday be seen as free men.
    Ohhh, my B. I thought ALL of our ancestors were evil slave owners. I totally forgot about the others! Thanks for the reminder!
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
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  2. #92
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    And if you opened your goddamn eyes you'd see that some of our ancestors were opposed to slavery & that many lost their lives while fighting to end oppression of Americans. Not every Colonial American family supported slavery, some gave all to help enable that all Americans would someday be seen as free men.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Ohhh, my B. I thought ALL of our ancestors were evil slave owners. I totally forgot about the others! Thanks for the reminder!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Bit of Trivia from Coulter's book: Senator Warren's great great great grandfather was involved in "The Trail of Tears" as an enforcer.

    So I guess you're saying that Senator Warren's other ancestors very well could have been opposed to slavery too then, and that it's even possible, bear with me, that Senator Warren had more than ONE great great great grandfather. I don't know though, ancestry stuff has always sounded hard to me.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  3. #93
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Like I said, while you and I may not agree where all of our taxes go (we do get some say with a vote) they afford us lots of good services and infrastructures. I've already mentioned several examples of that.

    And paying taxes is how a civilization can function. You want to leave the fire department up to citizens that just volunteer?? I'm sure that will work out well.

    A HUGE portion of this country live in very complex infrastructures that require an experienced group of experts to organize and engineer, for example, proper fire truck routes, organized communication. It's hard shit, man. It SOUNDS like you're saying, "Oh we'll just naturally figure it out eventually."

    And c'mon, you have it pretty sweet in this country. You can say what you want, own cool weapons that most countries can't, it really is one of the most free countries. Even in Germany, you will go to jail for drawing a swastika your backpack. Now do I think that's a good thing to do? NO. But I appreciate that here, you have that right.

    But again, taxes have been around since the dawn of society. There's a reason for that.
    OK.

    I read this very carefully. I found it to contain..

    explanations that taxation has been going on for a long time...

    expressions of your gratitude for the services provided by government...

    Attempts to sell me on the benefits of taxation...

    but NOWHERE did I find an actual answer to my question.

    I will try once more.
    Theft is the taking of property against the will of the owner, whether by force, or some other means.

    If someone is unwilling to pay taxes, and government then takes them by force, or threat of force... how does this not meet the definition?

    Do you have an actual reason that taxation doesn't meet the criteria of being defined as theft?

  4. #94
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    And if you opened your goddamn eyes you'd see that some of our ancestors were opposed to slavery & that many lost their lives while fighting to end oppression of Americans. Not every Colonial American family supported slavery, some gave all to help enable that all Americans would someday be seen as free men.
    In 1833 the House of Commons abolished slavery for the first time in history.

    Then the Royal Navy was sent out into the Atlantic with orders to sink any American slave ship.

    And the Americans, deciding that discretion was the better part of valour, ceased their slave trade across the Atlantic.

  5. #95
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    OK.

    I read this very carefully. I found it to contain..

    explanations that taxation has been going on for a long time...

    expressions of your gratitude for the services provided by government...

    Attempts to sell me on the benefits of taxation...

    but NOWHERE did I find an actual answer to my question.

    I will try once more.
    Theft is the taking of property against the will of the owner, whether by force, or some other means.

    If someone is unwilling to pay taxes, and government then takes them by force, or threat of force... how does this not meet the definition?

    Do you have an actual reason that taxation doesn't meet the criteria of being defined as theft?
    Ok sure taxation is TOTALLY theft. And by that I mean a mugger (the government) steals my money and then uses it to protect our national borders, and gives education to our children, pays for public services, and even uses it to provide free books for everyone!

    That's like, the nicest mugger ever.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #96
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    "We The People" refers to the citizens of the US. If the government doesn't exist to serve it's citizens then WTF do we need government for?
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.

  7. #97
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    C'mon South Africa has recently had a non-violent revolution under Nelson Mandela and Frederick de Klerk. And both Nelson Mandela and Frederick de Kerk shared the Noble Prize for Peace.

    By contrast the USA had a violent revolution against lawful authority. And unlike South Africa, the USA has yet to pass Gun Control legislation.

    So the USA has a long way to go to catch up with South Africa.
    For once Mole, you've written a post which doesn't make me angry, and with which I actually agree.

  8. #98
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Taxation is theft, plain and simple.

  9. #99
    Senior Member BlackDog's Avatar
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    Also, gun control laws are a way to disarm us so we can be robbed more easily. But I advocate them anyway!

  10. #100
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Lots of lions in here.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

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