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  1. #51
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Well on this fine morning...

    lets see this morning I still feel 459 instead of 451 so I'm going to have to go with Delta + with a combo of Gamma -

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Damn senza on an ENFP-HATIN spree

    *resists calling forth a bunch of ENFPs (including @-starry! :P)*

    I'm totally not hating on the ENFPs for it, actually. Especially not in this instance, because I don't like the sentiments that motivate this chart. I find the whole "a place for everything and everything in its place" pecking order stupid and annoying and I think people can get vindictive and hurtful about it, which is why I'm not a fan.

    Which doesn't change the fact that social groupings do exist and that certain kinds of people prioritize shit like this ... and correspondingly, some move against them equally vehemently. ENFPs in particular (and INFPs as well, to a lesser extent), tend to see and portray themselves in a kind of aristocratic light ... far above such petty, inconsequential social groupings and categories ... and often build cultural capital based on this tendency.

    See @skylights' response for a PERFECT example of this.

    And I shall summon @Starry myself.

  3. #53
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Which doesn't change the fact that social groupings do exist and that certain kinds of people prioritize shit like this ... and correspondingly, some move against them equally vehemently. ENFPs in particular (and INFPs as well, to a lesser extent), tend to see and portray themselves in a kind of aristocratic light ... far above such petty, inconsequential social groupings and categories ... and often build cultural capital based on this tendency.

    See @skylights' response for a PERFECT example of this.


    You're right though. I've never thought of it as an "aristocratic" type of perception but my boyfriend has pointed out more than once that I have a tendency to interpret myself "out" of typical situational context, including status quo groups and even things like laws. I guess I just see these things as artifice and able to be changed, so why adhere unless those systems are impacting the world in a positive way?

    I mean for real though. I guess my problem with the matrix is I always ask myself if [whatever] is benefiting the world. Is it helping improve everyone's quality of life? Is it advancing intellectual pursuits and education? Is it breaking artificial barriers between people? Is it illuminating misunderstandings? Is it getting at the important meanings in life?

    I think what bothers me the most is when I look at the "delta" photos and see those people and know that they have hearts and minds and desires and pains and things that are important to them and struggles and successes, that they are someone's child and someone's friend and someone's neighbor, and here they are reduced to "easily-led cattle", mediocre, "good for water cooler conversation". I get that it's trying to say these people are absorbed with what doesn't matter in life and therefore fall to the bottom of the pack, but it's ironic when you think about it because what kind of arrogant, condescending judgment of a person is that? It's so superficial. It pretenses that someone with a menial job and collections isn't living a worthy life. It's no one's right to decide that someone else's life isn't meaningful. First of all it's really none of their business - their life isn't someone else's to value through outside eyes - and secondly it's disgusting to have so much ego that you think you are more worthwhile than anyone else.

    I mean, yes, of course the Nazi furries probably qualify as "seriously misled", but I guess I'm wondering how this social hierarchy even applies. What is "top of the pack?" Is it doing well at your job? Is it having the kind of life you want? I assume if you don't want to be the alpha+ but you're successful it automatically makes you gamma+? What's the point of the chart, really, besides boosting the egos of people that see themselves as alpha+?

    Anyway I guess that's my take on it. It just comes off as mildly entertaining but relatively useless in terms of applicability, not all that beneficial in terms of anything else, and stupidly condescending to a fair amount of people. My overall feeling towards it is very "bleh". Not really worth a huge amount of disdain but worth a laugh and an eye roll.

  4. #54
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    I see no wrong in placing people in categories like this.

    There's obviously gonna be exceptions, or some having traits of two or more groups, due to both the complexity of human beings and because the categories themselves might not be perfect.

    But you can't deny the existence of these kind of groups and hierarchies. If you do, I think you're either naïve or protecting an image of yourself as being above such categorization, because everyone is unique or whatever.

  5. #55
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    I found this model very interesting, and I feel like brainstorming. Skip if you aren't into ramblings unlikely interconnections. I'll mention some PUA related stuff, so also skip if you don't feel like its 'knowledge' can sometimes be accurate.

    Also,



    One great aspect of the model is that it goes beyond the powerful-and-dominant-alpha/powerless-and-submissive-beta division, classic in the animal kingdom, and overly hyped in manosphere sites. Truth is human societies are much more complex. See Obama, considered the most powerful person in the world, and yet not an alpha at all.

    Back when I got introduced to PUA 'knowledge', I used to be an alpha wannabe, and I actually put quite a lot of effort into it. Nowadays, while I believe it's possible for almost any guy to become an alpha, I don't think that's a fulfilling lifestyle for most people.

    Beta+ guys, for example, often settle down with the women of their dreams and seem to live the happiest marriages. An alpha guy, while most likely to close the deal, would have a hard time getting a smart woman to believe that he would settle down with her (and remain faithful).

    Gamma+ guys usually won't feel like putting all the effort required to climb the social ladder. Like, friending powerful people to get access to the top tier circles, staying connected, constantly having conversations that don't bring any enlightenment but make you look cool.

    Based on around 3 years of reading pua literature, I'd recommend this and this to whoever is trying to evolve into alpha. Those should cover the behavior part, allowing a fake-until-you-make-it approach, though it should take a couple of years.

    As for Delta and Omegas, both positive and negative are total losers, period. No need to sugarcoat it.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    In my faux feminist impression, just another example of men waving their phallic privilege around, men are so obsessed with domination, not only domination over women but also over other men.

    Seriously though I'd be a closest fit between positive gamma and positive delta.
    Reserved Calm Unstructured Egocentric Inquisitive Clown

    Johari Nohari

  7. #57
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Edited

  8. #58
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    I used to be an alpha wannabe, and I actually put quite a lot of effort into it.
    We noticed.


  9. #59
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    *wonders how many people are going to claim to be gamma +*

    I'm 75% Gamma positive and 25% repressed Alpha negative which yes = 100% Gamma positive (it's called math people.) And as an interesting aside... in junior high and high school I apparently exclusively dated Gamma negative males


    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I also think ENFPs are most likely to be offended by this chart.

    I strongly dislike the chart. It makes me a bit sick to my stomach. It annoys me because it represents everything I despise about societies/hierarchies. It annoys me because people individually and collectively buy into this shit and because they do...and do so in droves (read herds)...this cancer persists. I mean, I think it's pretty unwise really...to laugh this off as if there isn't truth here. <-To me this is just as dangerous as buying into it. #Gammauprisingandrebellion

    ^^My sentiments above do not take into consideration personality theory though. If this is in fact socionics and this chart is 'Quadra related'...I've seen enough now to question why a theory this hateful is even allowed on a site that has so recently had a massive overhaul of their FAQs...to include 'hate speech' as a bannable offense.





    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Which doesn't change the fact that social groupings do exist and that certain kinds of people prioritize shit like this ... and correspondingly, some move against them equally vehemently. ENFPs in particular (and INFPs as well, to a lesser extent), tend to see and portray themselves in a kind of aristocratic light ... far above such petty, inconsequential social groupings and categories ... and often build cultural capital based on this tendency.


    And I shall summon @Starry myself.
    ^^I never noticed this prior to coming here...but I notice it now...and it's embarrassing.

  10. #60
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Beta-minus = Badger.
    HA! That guys stupid

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