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  1. #31
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    I actually find the chart pretty interesting.

    Sort of like @YWIR's Male/Female trolling lists, it's not perfect or anything, but you can certainly learn something from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Obnoxious as this chart is, yes, I think it IS actually related to type: specifically, type as socionics Beta STs see it.
    Yeah, that's about what I was thinking.

    This is like an ESTP-generated list if I've ever seen one (but I could see ENTPs, ETJs and ESFPs get in on it too).

    I'm sorry to front run your eventual comment, but it was hard enough for me not to say this immediately... oh, I'll hold it in.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    In this system the Beta STs probably see themselves as the alphas and see socionics alphas as the betas. Socionics gammas stay gammas and socionics deltas stay deltas ... and omegas are deltas, too, because inter-quadra conflict.
    Interesting thought.

    Sounds... well... pretty right.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    *wonders how many people are going to claim to be gamma +*
    Well, seeing as how you already said my quadra was Gamma...

    But, seriously, just to put my pre-reading-this-chart, long-held world view out there, but... as I said to a friend of mine a long time ago (probably ~8-9 yrs ago), I don't really see myself as a typical alpha male, if I can even be considered an alpha male. I mean, I will alpha motherfuckers, and I will have no problem conversing and schmoozing with people of any part of the social ladder (when I see celebrities, which, living in LA, I do surprisingly often, it's always interesting how naturally I will react and talk with him -- it almost feels easier for me to talk with them than your average run of the mill human being -- it's almost like, around them, my ego won't be so threatening, and I can just be myself), but, as I told my friend, "alphas are trapped in the social system". They are part of something, and I take a very different approach. I believe I called alphas "rams", and said that I'm more of a lone wolf. They're still part of the herd, and I'm kinda just off on my own, separate from everybody else. I don't really give a damn about the social system. I, imo, am outside of it. And any time people try to put me within it, even if it's to elevate me, I don't like it. I don't like the feeling of even being considered in someone else's framework. I am in MY framework. And that's the only framework I care about. If you try to honor me, or hate on me, in your social system, I will reject it, and prefer for you to kindly take it elsewhere, where it would be more appreciated (and, if appropriate, possibly somewhere up near your small intestine).

    Now, this was something I have felt for a long time. I mean, I used to hang out with a lot of alpha negatives. And I sort of considered myself an alpha positive, or at least heading in that direction, but I recognized that that's not exactly who I really was. I was something, I felt, on par with them. But different. They were trapped within the social system. I was outside of it.

    So, yeah, snarky front running aside, I do think I pretty much am a gamma+, in this system.

    Interestingly, even the writers of this, Socionics beta STs that they presumably are, recognize what I talked about above. Which is interesting. Cuz I used to think about how the Alphas would see me and kinda, not know what to do with me. Cuz I might have a smoking hot girl on my arm. Or walk around with a confidence that I don't really give a shit about any of them, I'm doing my own thing, and my shit, frankly, is better than theirs. But I did also recognize that there were some in the Alpha category, who would see me, and kinda, I dunno, kinda give that wink and a nod, that recognition, that game recognize game, WHILE, at the same time, either not being aware, or possibly being aware, that I wasn't actually one of them, that I ran my shit a bit different. I suppose these two different reactions were the Alpha negatives and the Alpha positives. And I actually respect the Alpha positives. Like, I don't hate on them, like I do the Alpha negatives. I recognize their game as well. And respect it. I look down on it a little bit, cuz they are still strapping themselves to this external standard, and, for all kinds of reasons, I think that's problematic, but, that being said, the system is certainly there, and some 90%+ of people seem to fall within it, and play by its rules, so... I mean, do what you gotta do. If that's your game, then play on. I ain't gunna hate the guy who dominates the game. Not if he's an Alpha positive, at least (as, imo, a certain kind of, I dunno, a certain kind of responsibility actually comes with that. Oh, you know what, I should probably make that further distinction. I think there are... well, I think there may be certain kinds of Alpha positives -- who knows, maybe this is still just the positive vs negative distinction, but, if it's not -- but I think there are certain kinds of Alpha positives who are more just out for themselves, and then there are those who look out for others. Perhaps this could be best described by the Alignment system's axis of Good and Evil. The description you get of most Alpha positives would seem to kind go with a True Neutral description, imo. And, frankly, as a Neutral Good being, I actually find people who are Neutral on the Good-Evil axis to be a bit problematic. It's kind of like the saying, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing." Well, I feel that Good men, indeed, will do something, whereas Neutral men, you, well, never know. I also think Good men will be more proactive in helping other men, women, children, the elderly, society, you know, sort of give back, whereas Neutral men will probably be less inclined in this regard [and, if they do actually engage in such activities, will probably not really be committed to it, will only do so half-heartedly, and will stop if it ever becomes any kind of inconvenience].)

    Wow, that was really long.

    Who know I had so much social thought stored up inside of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    I also think ENFPs are most likely to be offended by this chart.


    Quote Originally Posted by senza tema View Post
    Offense is one of two possible ENFP reactions. The other involves vociferously saying you're not offended because of how openminded you are ... just to be contrary.
    Double

    Damn senza on an ENFP-HATIN spree

    *resists calling forth a bunch of ENFPs (including @-starry! :P)*

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Social ranking is fairly self-evident as far as I am concerned. It's usually clear when fairly different groups are "above" or "below". It's when they are close that it really depends on your prospective. Even then sometimes another person will have an entirely different view on it. Their view might not be correct, but ultimately how they respond, see, deal, and fit in with it all really determines what it is for them.
    You know, I actually agree with this.

    As much as I'm not a fan of it, and feel it's super Fe-ish, I do agree that it exists.

    And I've even been guilty of it, at times in my life, where I've gone outside of my normal social sphere, and been like, "What the fuck am I doing at this party? These people are clearly way, way WAY below me and my normal social group."

    That hasn't happened often, and, frankly, I'm not really proud when it has -- as I try to be nice to everyone, and have always been one to sort of try and embrace the kids who are sorta weirdos on the outside, and be nice to them -- but I remember a couple times when it did happen -- I actually said it out loud one time to two of my friends who came with me *hangs head in shame* -- and, honestly, I'm not proud of it, and look back on those moments as some of the lower ones in my life.

    / #humbleshamebrag ?

  2. #32
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    Oh, and ftr, I could possibly see at least a bit of myself in Alpha positive, Beta positive, Beta negative, and Gamma positive.

    I was actually somewhat surprised, tho, when I got to the Gamma positive description, and that's where I really fit in best.

    ETA: ok, just read it all over again, and I could probably just say I'm Gamma+ (w/ maybe a little bit of Alpha+)

    ETA2: also, @senza tema, on second read, I think it may have actually been written by a Gamma+...

  3. #33
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Oh, and ftr, I could possibly see at least a bit of myself in Alpha positive, Beta positive, Beta negative, and Gamma positive.

    I was actually somewhat surprised, tho, when I got to the Gamma positive description, and that's where I really fit in best.
    INTx should be gamma positive, while ENTJ should be alpha positive, ENTP alpha pos/neg or beta pos.

    I feel so violated sitting here in Delta. Someone rescue me
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetary Walker View Post
    INTx should be gamma positive, while ENTJ should be alpha positive, ENTP alpha pos/neg or beta pos.
    I think those are a bit simplistic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Planetary Walker View Post
    I feel so violated sitting here in Delta. Someone rescue me
    If it makes you feel any better, I figured you for more of a Gamma neg kinda guy. :P

  5. #35
    Senor Membrae Eugene Watson VIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I think those are a bit simplistic...



    If it makes you feel any better, I figured you for more of a Gamma neg kinda guy.
    Am offend. Pls ban
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  6. #36
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Are these supposed to be correlated with financial status? Also weird that it's all white dudes except for one..

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by momental View Post
    I see myself as an Alpha -.
    I think you're on to something with the Beta Positive and the Alpha Negative, but we both have some Gamma Negative as well. Or at least something that's a product of a 4 fix.

    In any case, even though this chart concerns itself with status as opposed to personality - status being relative to one's social circle and personality being relative to individual constraints - you would do better with a legitimate chart since such a "coalescence" must ultimately rest on theory.

    My understanding - (an entertainment)

    Alpha - ENTJ, ESTJ, ENFJ, ESTP - 8w7, 8w9, 1w2
    Beta - ENTJ, ESTJ, ESFP, ESTP, ENFP, ENFJ, ESFJ, ENTP, ISTJ, INTJ - 7w8, 7w6, 2w3, 2w1, 3w2, 3w4, 6w7, 1w2,
    Gamma - INTJ, INTP, ENTP, ISTP, ENFP, ISTJ, INFJ, INFP, ~ENTJ ~ISFP - 6w7, 6w5, 5w6, 5w4, 4w5, 4w3, 1w9, ~9w1
    Shit tier - everyone else in some descending order that would follow from the rest (sorry ISFJs)

    Notice the overlap.

    If you think I (an INFP) am a Beta, then there should be a lot of wiggle room for fuck ups and fortunate people alike. If I am to follow your 'logic', that is.

    I think I'm going to go take a cold shower now.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    Are these supposed to be correlated with financial status? Also weird that it's all white dudes except for one..
    You never know. Both those nazi furries could be black dudes.

  9. #39
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    SEE's (ESFPs) would definitely fall under alpha as opposed to beta. Although yeah, the Myers Briggs descriptions don't emphasize traits like willpower, status/exclusivity-seeking, etc. quite as much.

  10. #40
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    ENFPs offended? Lol, nah. Not worth it. Entertaining and gave me a few good laughs but it strikes me as stupid in terms of lacking recognition of varied skills, lifepaths, talents, successes, etc. And yeah the illustrations are amusing, totally white, physical-appearance-focused, stereotypey. There are a few good points in it and obviously classification is fun.

    Anyway thanks for the laugh before I hit the sack.

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