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  1. #1
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Default The 77% lie – and why Obama keeps telling it

    Do Women Really Make 23% Less than Men Doing the Same Work?

    In his last State of the Union address, Obama said: “Today, women make up about half our workforce. But they still make 77 cents for every dollar a man earns. That is wrong, and in 2014, it’s an embarrassment. A woman deserves equal pay for equal work. She deserves to have a baby without sacrificing her job.”
    According to Mr. Elder, this is a flat out lie because the 77% figure is an across the board figure. After adjusting for differences in job experience, education, and other factors, the disparity shrank to only 5%. (That 5% figure comes from a 2009 Dept of Labor report.)

    A greater percentage of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than full-time work. A greater percentage of women than men tend to leave the labor force for childbirth, childcare and elder care.
    Even the 5% disparity can be explained by non-sexist/non-exploitative factors.

    (M)uch of the literature, including the Bureau of Labor Statistics Highlights of Women’s Earnings, focus on wages rather than total compensation. Research indicates that women may value non-wage benefits more than men do, and as a result prefer to take a greater portion of their compensation in the form of health insurance and other fringe benefits.”
    Why is President Obama lying again?

    Mr. Elder thinks it's to advance the political narrative of a Republican war against women and that income inequality is a serious problem.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #2
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    I got into an argument about this with some woman the other day because I was sure I had read that the disparity was so little so as to be insignificant if the study was properly adjusted for.

    Besides...I think women have it good, to be honest. Why? Because societal expectation is for men to take care of women. But there ain't no one taking care of a man, if not for his momma. What's a bum man to do? Well, be on the street..that's what.

    It's the economic power of sex that people forget about. You could say that while women make .8 to a man's dollar, they're still richer than men because .5 of every dollar a man makes, is for a woman. lol.

    That whole..."my money is our money, but her money is her money" thing..

  3. #3
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Leftists feed on inequalities. Only way to justify more taxes and less freedom.
    Likes TopCatLSD liked this post

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I'm interested in the OP's assertion (there's actually some tangible angles by which to check the figures), so I'll do some research on it. What happens when the number is properly weighted?

    The rest sounds like a bunch of broad brushing and whining to me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Obama is just repeating stuff he's heard without questioning it, and it falls in line with what we're always being told about how women are so horribly oppressed in our society.

    The more factors you control for, the closer men's and women's wages are. In fact, young, unmarried, childless women actually make 8% more than men. Men, as a group, work longer hours than women, work less flexible hours than women, take fewer vacations than women, work more dangerous jobs than women, and generally don't take time off to raise children. Wage studies tend to ignore the benefits of things like flexible hours, despite the fact that they have an economic value. If someone is willing to trade wages for flexible hours, is that gender discrimination or is that someone making a choice based upon his/her priorities? Why should men be penalized for choosing wages over flexibility? You might say, "No one is suggesting that we penalize men", but that's the logical end of this conversation, equality of outcomes, that women and men should be paid the same regardless of their personal choices in life.

    There undoubtedly is gender discrimination in this country, but if it has any impact on wages, it is less than 5%. 5% of the wage gender gap is just what cannot be explained through experience/education/hours worked/etc. That's still not accounting for personal choice.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    OP sounds like axe-grinding.

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    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    OP sounds like axe-grinding.
    Let's say that's true. Does that make the argument invalid?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #8
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    OP sounds like axe-grinding.
    Yeah I agree, but it seems like all political discussions are just people grinding axes side-by-side. Whaddya gonna do? It doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong (haven't even looked at the particulars yet).

    I've never really understood/witnessed the wage gap, I just assumed it was true, because it sounded like most awful stuff that is true. I guess this is lazy thinking on my part, it just seems weird that so many people I trust repeat it. It's been hammered into my head since I was a kid (my high school economics teacher beat that drum all year long).

    That being said, I've never worked a job where women get paid less than men for the same work...but maybe that's just because I work crappy jobs? Where does 77% the number come from?

    Edit: Hmm actually, I'll should do my own research. I'll be back!

    Double Edit: I know this is prejudicial, but the sketchy website makes me skeptical of what it's saying. I will try to see beyond appearances and dig.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Yeah I agree, but it seems like all political discussions are just people grinding axes side-by-side. Whaddya gonna do? It doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong (haven't even looked at the particulars yet).
    Agreed. But to jump to an automatic "lying" is getting old.

    I'm more likely to question the research rather than claiming "Bob or Betty is lying, again." Again? If one is going to make claims like that, they better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I think people are more likely to be guilty of not knowing what they're talking about, rather than being flat out liars.

  10. #10
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Agreed. But to jump to an automatic "lying" is getting old.
    .
    Whether it is getting old or not, politicians lie. More often in fact, than when they tell the truth.

    An honest and studied evaluation of just about any political speech will make this clear. And Obama is more adept at it than most.

    Even when truth is employed, it is employed dishonestly (i.e. partial truth intended to deceive).

    Sadly, the more honest the speaker... the more likely they are to be pilloried in the mainstream press.

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