User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 111

  1. #71
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    115

    Default

    You mean because they aren't allowed to test medications on just anyone anymore without telling them what it is? Or they cannot just treat mental hospital patients like guinea pigs anymore? And you conveniently ignore literally all the information ever on the doctored up food we used to be given back in the day before regulations were in place. I acknowledged it is inefficient and doesn't work smoothly like I'd like it to. but that doesn't meant it's a garbage system we're "wasting" our money on.
    Curiously I can think of literally hundreds of examples where experiments were carried out on patients without their consent. And where people were exposed to illnesses without their consent. Or where people were told they were being given a treatment for an illness, when they were not. Or where they were experimented on with psychoactive drugs without their knowledge. Or exposed to radiation without disclosure of the harmful effects. Or even entire cities exposed to flu and cold viruses by fogging to measure the effectiveness of delivery.

    And in EVERY single case their experiments were carried out by government, or at the direction of the government.

    I can think of no example where this took place in private industry. Even before the FDA.

    But as you know, I wasn't talking about experimenting on people without their consent. I was talking about people with terminal illnesses who are desperate for any shot at a cure. People who understand the risks, and are begging to be allowed to participate in a trial of some cure.. only to be told that they cannot.. by the FDA.

  2. #72
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,953

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    People are moving away from America because they don't want to pay employees $8/hr when they can pay a chinese person $2/hr. That isn't the government being shitty. That's the companies being cheap. There are LOT of shitty things on both sides of that equation, that's outside of the realm of this OP.
    Peter Schiff listed a whole bunch of hiring taxes in his book "The Real Crash". Here are some of the taxes that discourage hiring:

    1. Payroll Taxes: FICA and MICA costs the employee 7.5% and the employer 7.5%.
    2. Employers pay for unemployment insurance for workers (on average, this is a 4.5% cost).
    3. Some states require employers to pay for workers compensation programs (around a 5% cost).
    4. Then there are the local employment taxes which run around 1%.

    Overall, there is a 21.6% hiring penalty for employers. In order for an employee to take home $30,000/year, the employer has to pay out $36,500/year. I'm not even including the cost of regulatory compliance (which is over $1.5 trillion/year) for businesses. For instance, G.E. hires 975 people just to skirt the corporate income tax laws.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  3. #73
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Tell me. What would keep our food fresh, and not toxic to our bodies, if the FDA went away?
    One likely scenario would be the ascendence of an organization like one which exists in private industry today.

    An organization called Underwriter's Laboratories.

    A privately funded group which tests products for basic safety and efficacy without involving the government at all. All US manufacturers actually willingly line up to have their products tested and certified by the UL so that they can put the words "UL Listed" on their labels. Manufacturers aren't required to do it. But they do. Because it certifies safety to consumers, and helps indemnify them against insurance losses by showing that they've done the requisite safety testing.

    And UL has never been accused of corruption, or dishonesty. Why?

    Because the only product that they have to offer is their honesty and good name.

    I would imagine that in the absence of the FDA (which really doesn't test anything by the way) agencies like UL would arise to fill the gap. I know I'd seek out such certifications on the products I purchased.

    All without the pretense of government adding safety, while instead adding only cost and burden.

  4. #74
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Peter Schiff listed a whole bunch of hiring taxes in his book "The Real Crash". Here are some of the taxes that discourage hiring:

    1. Payroll Taxes: FICA and MICA costs the employee 7.5% and the employer 7.5%.
    2. Employers pay for unemployment insurance for workers (on average, this is a 4.5% cost).
    3. Some states require employers to pay for workers compensation programs (around a 5% cost).
    4. Then there are the local employment taxes which run around 1%.

    Overall, there is a 21.6% hiring penalty for employers. In order for an employee to take home $30,000/year, the employer has to pay out $36,500/year. I'm not even including the cost of regulatory compliance (which is over $1.5 trillion/year) for businesses. For instance, G.E. hires 975 people just to skirt the corporate income tax laws.
    So we take away unemployment and worker's compensation? There is the cost of doing business. The more business, the higher the cost too. I guarantee you that none of the businesses that pay those taxes are going out of business because of those taxes. Nor would they if they stayed in America and operated completely American, despite the higher cost. Do they WANT to do that? No. Because it cuts into precious higher authority pay checks. They make far far more than they'll ever truly need, even when living in luxury and enjoying the profits of their labors. Instead of giving back to the community, they get money hungry and go elsewhere. We have those things there for a reason--because that same successful guy could have easily been someone with their legs ripped off in a machine at a young age and needed life-long support. The employees pay into taxes too--and every single person on welfare and food stamps is being supported by tax dollars. And the amount they see impacting their taxes is directly affecting them--they're working for free all the time because a portion of their money goes into those taxes. So it isn't like people aren't all paying into this pot here. Employers and employees feel the burden of those taxes. Employees definitely outsource their labors to other countries too.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  5. #75
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Is this new Obama agenda item really anti-business?

    "I WILL whisper in the reader’s ear a horrible suspicion that has sometimes haunted me: the suspicion that Hudge [the government] and Gudge [corporations] are secretly in partnership. That the quarrel they keep up in public is very much of a put-up job, and that the way in which they perpetually play into each other’s hands is not an everlasting coincidence. Gudge, the plutocrat, wants an anarchic industrialism; Hudge, the idealist, provides him with lyric praises of anarchy. Gudge wants women-workers because they are cheaper; Hudge calls the woman’s work “freedom to live her own life.” Gudge wants steady and obedient workmen, Hudge preaches teetotalism — to workmen, not to Gudge. Gudge wants a tame and timid population who will never take arms against tyranny; Hudge proves from Tolstoi that nobody must take arms against anything. Gudge is naturally a healthy and well-washed gentleman; Hudge earnestly preaches the perfection of Gudge’s washing to people who can’t practice it. Above all, Gudge rules by a coarse and cruel system of sacking and sweating and bi-sexual toil which is totally inconsistent with the free family and which is bound to destroy it; therefore Hudge, stretching out his arms to the universe with a prophetic smile, tells us that the family is something that we shall soon gloriously outgrow."

  6. #76
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,953

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    There is the cost of doing business. The more business, the higher the cost too. I guarantee you that none of the businesses that pay those taxes are going out of business because of those taxes. Nor would they if they stayed in America and operated completely American, despite the higher cost.
    That 21.6% cost is only a fraction of the cost of doing business. There was a study of the regulatory burden to small businesses in Calif commissioned by the State Government. Here are some of the findings:

    The study finds that the total cost of regulation to the State of California is $492.994 billion which is almost five times the State’s general
    fund budget, and almost a third of the State’s gross product. The cost of regulation results in an employment loss of 3.8 million jobs which is a tenth of the State’s population. Since small business constitute 99.2% of all employer businesses in California, and all of non-employer business, the regulatory cost is borne almost completely by small business. The total cost of regulation was $134,122.48 per small business in California in 2007, labor income not created or lost was $4,359.55 per small business, indirect business taxes not generated or lost were $57,260.15 per small business, and finally roughly one job lost per small business. This study provides the most comprehensive and complete analysis of the total regulatory burden in California.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  7. #77
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post

    "I WILL whisper in the reader’s ear a horrible suspicion that has sometimes haunted me: the suspicion that Hudge [the government] and Gudge [corporations] are secretly in partnership. "
    Without question this is so.

    Megacorp conspires to preserve its hold on markets by employing government (bought and paid for by lobbyists) to create ever-growing mountains of regulation which give the appearance of protecting "the little guy" or "the environment" or whatever the cause du jour is... but in actually create such barriers to entry for small companies, that only Megacorp can tolerate the weight of them.

  8. #78
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Of course they are making a profit.

    They are making that profit in addition to the tax cost burden that they carry.

    In the absence of that tax cost burden, their goods would be much less expensive when sold.

    Surely you can concede this truth.
    No, I don't. They will charge what the market will bear.

    They are already receiving corporate welfare in the form of public assistance to their underpaid employees. A lot of them have a negative net federal tax liability. A lot of them leave environmental messes for taxpayers to clean up. They want to be treated like people when it comes to contributing money to political campaigns, then let them pay taxes like people.

    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #79
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    115

    Default

    No, I don't. They will charge what the market will bear.
    Of course they will charge what the market will bear.

    And the market will bear less as production costs drop, and competition ensues over market share.

    Are you seriously contesting the idea that lower production costs lead to lower prices for goods?

    Seriously?

  10. #80
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    On the 47% that basically pay no income taxes. Of course you prefer raising taxes, when the only taxes being raised are other peoples.
    They pay a larger share of their income in payroll and sales tax. Payroll Social Security tax isn't paid on any earnings above $200K if I remember correctly.

    And the reason they pay so little is that they have so little money. Taking more of what little money they have might make them give up trying to participate in the workforce at all. This graph is based on data from before the recession. Wealth inequality has increased since then.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

Similar Threads

  1. What is this strange behavior called and why do people do it?
    By theflame in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 04-17-2017, 06:07 PM
  2. Electoral College in the US Pros and Cons for Keeping?
    By Anew Leaf in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 11-12-2012, 12:43 AM
  3. What type is the most independent and why?
    By INTPness in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 121
    Last Post: 06-13-2010, 02:19 PM
  4. What is "hope," and why do I "need" it??
    By ArbiterDewey in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-14-2008, 05:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO