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  1. #31
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Absolutely they have.

    And they are antithetical to liberty.
    That's statistically untrue.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Whether it is getting old or not, politicians lie.
    Imagine that. Politicians lie.





    People lie. Not just politicians.
    Let me guess - you've never lied. The OP has never lied.

    If so, I have some swampland to sell you on Park Ave. in New York City.

    Cheap.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    @Jaguar
    President Obama is a pathological liar, the most dishonest president ever. Just search for "Obama lies" on youtube. He has lied well over 100 times to the American public.
    The sky is falling. Run.

  3. #33
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    That's statistically untrue.
    Given your assertion that this is statistically untrue, do you think you might be able to provide something to substantiate your assertion.

    Like maybe statistics?

  4. #34
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Imagine that. Politicians lie.

    People lie. Not just politicians.
    Let me guess - you've never lied. The OP has never lied.

    If so, I have some swampland to sell you on Park Ave. in New York City.

    Cheap.

    The sky is falling. Run.
    uhhh... let's review:

    Tellenbach:"Why is President Obama lying again?"

    Jaguar:"OP sounds like axe-grinding. "

    Forever_Jung: "Yeah I agree, but it seems like all political discussions are just people grinding axes side-by-side. Whaddya gonna do? It doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong"

    Jaguar: "Agreed. But to jump to an automatic "lying" is getting old. "

    OWK: "Whether it is getting old or not, politicians lie. More often in fact, than when they tell the truth."

    Jaguar:"Imagine that. Politicians lie. "



    So first, you object to calling politicians liars. Then you call politicians liars.

    Peculiar.

  5. #35
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Having first hand experience with tons of douchebaggery in the civilian work place..

    I would still say 77% is a major leap.

    There are two main factors that really grate on my patience with this topic. From the one side: it always seems like they're trying to equate a guy working in a crab boat or something to a cashier lady. There is never just "Hey, out of all the walmart cashiers that do not qualify for an initial pay raise, women were paid x$ less than their male counter parts." It's trying to sum everything up into ONE figure. and that's just not possible. Equal work is the same job and pay status at a particular company. You cannot compare an Aldi's cashier to a walmart cashier. They get paid different right off the bat. The number is way too vague to champion it and say "Women just have shit opportunities!"

    On the other hand, nearly every woman who has made it big, has said that there were people holding them away from promotions and opportunities in one way or another. They had to deal with bosses giving promotions away to less qualified people, etc etc. Oprah gave a prime example of something shown all the time in practice. So, saying "there are women working less hours and taking more vacation or working less management positions in general" isn't really accurate because it doesn't take into account something uncountable. Walmart has a notorious, documented record, of keeping single mothers from working hours that males could be working because then they'd stop qualifying for food stamps or something.

    The subject bores me in general.. now-a-days, if you collect evidence properly, and you're a little loud about things, people won't fuck with you or bug you. Or you'll decide you don't want to work for such a douchey company and go somewhere else. Women have plenty of opportunity, and nothing is going to be 100%, and I'm *almost* fine with the way things are now with a few key exceptions.


    But I would like to see two things in legislation:
    - Companies larger than x number of employees posting what they pay workers for x amount of work over x years of service. It doesn't have to right there on their website, but every employee ever should be able to look at walmarts in x state and see exactly what they are suppose to be getting paid.

    - That companies found not paying equal pay for equal work be mandated to back pay. Obviously this is really arbitrary and difficult to prove without step one, but for those that have to post pay, if anyone can prove they were ever not paid the amounts they were suppose to be paid, or can show proof of denied work hours, they ought to be compensated for that. I've seen far too many people denied work hours than I have work pay itself. They say they'll be 30-40 hours, then work 2 hours a week and get sent home, and they cannot collect unemployment anymore because they have a job, nor can they survive off of that.

    It works for both genders, it's fairly neutral, and would only apply to larger companies that actually have the resources necessary to make these sort of things happen.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post


    But I would like to see two things in legislation:
    - Companies larger than x number of employees posting what they pay workers for x amount of work over x years of service. It doesn't have to right there on their website, but every employee ever should be able to look at walmarts in x state and see exactly what they are suppose to be getting paid.

    - That companies found not paying equal pay for equal work be mandated to back pay. Obviously this is really arbitrary and difficult to prove without step one, but for those that have to post pay, if anyone can prove they were ever not paid the amounts they were suppose to be paid, or can show proof of denied work hours, they ought to be compensated for that. I've seen far too many people denied work hours than I have work pay itself. They say they'll be 30-40 hours, then work 2 hours a week and get sent home, and they cannot collect unemployment anymore because they have a job, nor can they survive off of that.

    It works for both genders, it's fairly neutral, and would only apply to larger companies that actually have the resources necessary to make these sort of things happen.
    Wouldn't this take away the opportunity for business owners to provide financial incentive for things like merit? Performance? Initiative?

  7. #37
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I think that every president has lied. and just because you're crazy ass conservative you only notice this when a democrat is in office. But it doesn't matter which party, all presidents are liars
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #38
    Senior Member OWK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I think that every president has lied. and just because you're crazy ass conservative you only notice this when a democrat is in office. But it doesn't matter which party, all presidents are liars
    Wisdom.

    Just as crazy-assed liberals only notice it when conservatives are in office.

    The problem is inherent in the machine of government, and the mistaken belief that it is necessary.

  9. #39
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    The wage gap myth has been around for quite some time. It's main stream now and most people are exposed to it in high school where the majority of teachers are females (86% http://www.edweek.org/media/pot2011final-blog.pdf) who lean left (http://www.hoover.org/news/daily-report/25103) whose union bosses donate 98% Democrat. With dual earning parents the norm, sadly, there is no one around with the time or want (on average, I'd surmise) to correct this misinformation.

    FTR I don't think Obama "lied", technically, when he said that women make 27% less, but it sure is misleading/deceitful when you don't take into account all the factors that have been discussed. Comparing apples to oranges really.

    Thomas Sowell dismantles wage disparity in under 5 minutes on Firing Line circa 1978



    Same issue/debate, new generation. Stop the indoctrination already.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OWK View Post
    Wisdom.

    Just as crazy-assed liberals only notice it when conservatives are in office.

    The problem is inherent in the machine of government, and the mistaken belief that it is necessary.
    exactly. I consider myself fairly liberal, but lived in berkley for 6 months, and I thought those people were too liberal. But places I've lived with a big conservative influenced I thought they were too conservative. Of course I can get along with anyone no matter their beliefs, but sometimes they're just too extreme, and though I can get along with them for short periods of time, if they're too extreme I can't sustain the nice polite person interaction for long
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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