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  1. #61
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    One more thing, there is no consensus view on the "foundational definitions" @skylights refers to.

    We live in a pluralistic country where the right to espouse non majority opinions is constitutionally protected.

    I fail to see what justifies a social media witch hunt resulting in a titan of the tech industry being forced out of the company he founded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Kotkin
    Let’s call it “the debate is over” syndrome, referring to a term used most often in relationship with climate change but also by President Barack Obama last week in reference to what remains his contentious, and theoretically reformable, health care plan. Ironically, this shift to certainty now comes increasingly from what passes for the Left in America.

    These are the same people who historically have identified themselves with open-mindedness and the defense of free speech, while conservatives, with some justification, were associated more often with such traits as criminalizing unpopular views – as seen in the 1950s McCarthy era – and embracing canonical bans on all sorts of personal behavior, a tendency still more evident than necessary among some socially minded conservatives.

    But when it comes to authoritarian expression of “true” beliefs, it’s the progressive Left that increasingly seeks to impose orthodoxy. In this rising intellectual order, those who dissent on everything from climate change, the causes of poverty and the definition of marriage, to opposition to abortion are increasingly marginalized and, in some cases, as in the Steyn trial, legally attacked.

    A few days ago, Brendan Eich, CEO of the web browser company Mozilla, resigned under pressure from gay rights groups. Why? Because it was revealed he donated $1,000 to the campaign to pass Proposition 8, California’s since-overturned ballot measure defining marriage as between one man and one woman.

    In many cases, I might agree with some leftist views, say, on gay marriage or the critical nature of income inequality, but liberals should find these intolerant tendencies terrifying and dangerous in a democracy dependent on the free interchange of ideas.
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/m...-many-one.html
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  2. #62
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    I don't know about "activists" as a core group, but I know a lot of gay and trans people who believe in different faiths and attend religious services.
    It wouldn't surprise me, but I've never heard a gay person use the argument that marriage is an exercise of religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights
    I think that's why activists may seem to run up against religion, Tellenbach, because it's an area that you can't really fight against using reason. People say "but this is wrong according to [my beliefs]", and how is any of us supposed to get around that? I don't think it's really fair for someone's beliefs to limit everyone else, but that's what many religious people want, and what's prevented gay marriage from passing.
    You can persuade a party to your way of thinking through intimidation or education. Right now, we are witnessing intimidation techniques and such tactics aren't going to work in many parts of the country. I would point to the backlash against A&E for suspending Phil Robertson and the backlash against protestors of Chik-fil-a back in 2012. The recent proposition in Arizona is yet another backlash against intimidation that haven't even occurred yet. Expect to see more of this until the Supreme Court finally steps in and settles the matter of gay marriage.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    agreeing with me on deeply held beliefs is not a litmus test for whether or not I can like someone)
    Pretty much this, and perhaps more importantly, I don't want to live in a society that's a reflection of a goddamn high-school from an 80's movie-nor should any rational person, as eventually everyone will have to choose between repressed silence or public persecution by a self-righteous mob.

  4. #64
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    He gave them bad publicity, so they fired him to undo the damage. Don't see what the big deal is. It's like when that girl from Cold Stone called Obama a nigger and prayed for his assassination after his reelection. She gave them bad publicity, so they fired her to keep the company as a whole safe. It's just on a bigger scale this time.

    Seems like a normal business decision to me. It's up to Mozilla how they run their company anyway. Weren't people up for businesses making decisions based on its collective personal beliefs when there was that law saying they had the right to deny people service if it somehow went against their beliefs?
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    He gave them bad publicity, so they fired him to undo the damage. Don't see what the big deal is. It's like when that girl from Cold Stone called Obama a nigger and prayed for his assassination after his reelection. She gave them bad publicity, so they fired her to keep the company as a whole safe. It's just on a bigger scale this time.
    Can you not see the difference between calling POTUS a nigger, and donating $1000 to the prop 8 campaign?

  6. #66
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Can you not see the difference between calling POTUS a nigger, and donating $1000 to the prop 8 campaign?
    They both seem to be an exercise of one's personal beliefs to me. Except maybe one is more covert than the other.
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  7. #67
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    He gave them bad publicity, so they fired him to undo the damage. Don't see what the big deal is. It's like when that girl from Cold Stone called Obama a nigger and prayed for his assassination after his reelection. She gave them bad publicity, so they fired her to keep the company as a whole safe. It's just on a bigger scale this time.

    Seems like a normal business decision to me. It's up to Mozilla how they run their company anyway. Weren't people up for businesses making decisions based on its collective personal beliefs when there was that law saying they had the right to deny people service if it somehow went against their beliefs?
    Agreed.

    Why alienate a certain part of customer base when you can make money out of them?
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  9. #69
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Can you not see the difference between calling POTUS a nigger, and donating $1000 to the prop 8 campaign?
    Ironically, in the Laissez-Faire style economy businesses might prefer, corporations probably don't see the difference in terms of economic value. It is bad for business to criticize a branch of consumers, and thus it might stand to reason that any alienation of any branch of consumers would be considered unnecessarily detrimental to the profit of the corporation. We third-person bystanders view this in terms of individual liberty with the right to freedom of speech being punished by the corporation while the first-person viewers inside the corporation view that the C.E.O. has ultimately hurt the corporation by acting fairly "selfishly" (advocating a belief and donating to a cause that ultimately allows the C.E.O to vocalize his own opinions freely while throwing the corporation under the bus, potentially turning away an entire group of consumers in favor of the individual's right to say whatever he damn pleases). We look at what is right according to the individual, but the corporations are looking at what is profitable to the collective entity, ultimately cutting losses to save face in circumstances such as these, an ethically brutal tactic that limits the freedom of speech of the individual that preserves the collective's consumer base and therefore profit.

    Essentially, why let one man stain the work of thousands with his controversial utilization of freedom of speech and advocation when you could simply remove the man? Ethically it is wrong to remove a man for his opinions, but corporations don't build their empires on ethics.

  10. #70
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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