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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, that's possible. I just happen to have strong feelings about Prop 8 in particular, and especially how the Mormon church dumped $1 million into it despite being in Utah, and how they preyed off the fears of the traditional Latinos in order to fan resistance. It should have never passed, most people were shocked.

    You don't have to consider him a douche, of course; it's a free country.
    It certainly is a free country.

    Maybe I should have just come right out and say it. Do you think he is a bad person? Or perhaps, do you just think he has a differing opinion on the subject of subject of same sex marriage?

    If you think he's a bad person, is he a bad person because he disagrees with you, or because all who believe as he does are bad people?

  2. #12
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It certainly is a free country.

    Maybe I should have just come right out and say it. Do you think he is a bad person? Or perhaps, do you just think he has a differing opinion on the subject of subject of same sex marriage?

    If you think he's a bad person, is he a bad person because he disagrees with you, or because all who believe as he does are bad people?
    Ummm.... roll with it, and stop trying to blow this up into something it's not.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #13
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    It certainly is a free country.

    Maybe I should have just come right out and say it. Do you think he is a bad person? Or perhaps, do you just think he has a differing opinion on the subject of subject of same sex marriage?

    If you think he's a bad person, is he a bad person because he disagrees with you, or because all who believe as he does are bad people?
    Mozilla is in the moral wrong by firing him for making a donation to an anti-gay group due to the fact that he should have the freedom to declare whatever he pleases and do whatever he likes with his own money.

    However, he is in the ethical wrong for contributing money to an anti-gay group since he is actively campaigning against something that would not affect him directly but would directly affect an entire group of people. He, while demonstrating his own freedoms, is actively donating money to keep a minority's freedoms limited.

    Now we must discern the lesser of two evils, the first being Mozilla firing their C.E.O. for supporting a cause he favored, and the second being the C.E.O. supporting a cause that unnecessarily limits the freedoms of others based not on solid, empirical evidence that proves homosexuality would be harmful to the nation but on personal opinion.

    Therefore, we must come to the conclusion that Mozilla's firing is both a legal and ethical wrong (to fire someone based on their own opinions), and that the C.E.O. would be committing only an ethical wrong (supporting a cause to keep a minority in check), meaning that Mozilla's firing is the greater evil, but the C.E.O. is still a bad person nonetheless.

    A person in the ethical wrong is bad enough, but silencing said wronger with undeserved punishment is worse, ultimately.
    Last edited by Alea_iacta_est; 04-06-2014 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Fixed the train-wreck of a first sentence.

  4. #14
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Yikes, now there is a flame war on Mozilla's user input page.

    let this be a lesson to all you Jesus freaks, don't you ever, EVER! dare give one dollar to an anti-gay cause, you'll will learn Eich's lesson too!!! you have been warned!!!
    Your treatment of Brendan Eich is something one would expect in a totalitarian society. And your corporate statement about the matter is Orwellian doublespeak. It seems you believe in freedom of speech for those that agree with your positions but not for others. Maybe you should move your corporate offices to North Korea. By the way, no Mozilla product will ever again be used on any of my computers. Have a nice day.
    To quote from Mr. King, "Can't we all just get along?"
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Mozilla is in the moral wrong by firing him for making a donation to an anti-gay group due to the fact that he should have the freedom to declare whatever he pleases and do whatever he likes with his own money.

    However, he is in the ethical wrong for contributing money to an anti-gay group since he is actively campaigning against something that would not affect him directly but would directly affect an entire group of people. He, while demonstrating his own freedoms, is actively donating money to keep a minority's freedoms limited.

    Now we must discern the lesser of two evils, the first being Mozilla firing their C.E.O. for supporting a cause he favored, and the second being the C.E.O. supporting a cause that unnecessarily limits the freedoms of others based not on solid, empirical evidence that proves homosexuality would be harmful to the nation but on personal opinion.

    Therefore, we must come to the conclusion that Mozilla's firing is both a legal and ethical wrong (to fire someone based on their own opinions), and that the C.E.O. would be committing only an ethical wrong (supporting a cause to keep a minority in check), meaning that Mozilla's firing is the greater evil, but the C.E.O. is still a bad person nonetheless.

    A person in the ethical wrong is bad enough, but silencing said wronger with undeserved punishment is worse, ultimately.
    Ahh.

    So there can be no disagreement.

    Those who differ in opinion are per se evil.

    Good to know.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Ahh.

    So there can be no disagreement.

    Those who differ in opinion are per se evil.

    Good to know.
    Not necessarily, people who stop other people from utilizing their own personal freedoms for no reason other than personal opinion are evil. For those are people who are actively campaigning against a cause that really doesn't affect them as individuals. It disrupts public equality in the terms of equal personal freedoms for all.

    If the head of a corporation turned out to be a Nazi sympathizer, and the corporation fired him, then we would still have to rule that the corporation is silencing a person's opinion and is therefore in the ethical and legal wrong, but would you not also say that the Nazi sympathizer of a C.E.O is not also in the ethical wrong for wanting to persecute certain minorities that have not been proven to hurt the nation as an entire group?

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Yikes, now there is a flame war on Mozilla's user input page.
    you oughta know by now never to read the Comments/User Input pages.

    People will always be going at each other's throats about something or other.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    people who stop other people from utilizing their own personal freedoms for no reason other than personal opinion are evil
    How do you feel about my freedom to purchase an AR-15?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    How do you feel about my freedom to purchase an AR-15?
    I'm fine with it, so long as you don't murder someone with it (which will then result in punishment). I'm a libertarian, not a liberal (that's why I'm agreeing partially that Mozilla has done a greater evil).

    I'm not for the liberal methodology of stopping crimes before they happen, as that'll just result in messier deaths at the hands of various, more vicious, other weapons. Essentially, it would both be limiting people's freedoms and at the same time be utterly futile.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I'm fine with it, so long as you don't kill someone with it (which will then result in punishment). I'm a libertarian, not a liberal (that's why I'm agreeing partially that Mozilla has done a greater evil).
    It seems as if you equate not wanting the state of Cali to recognize SSM to a lynch mob, or Jim Crow.

    The harm in the case of prop 8 was limited to being unable to access gov't subsidies regarding marriage (e.g. tax breaks etc..).

    The cultural lynch mob after Eich, and the mentality behind it ensures the culture wars will not end. The president himself did not support gay marriage until very recently.

    Should he be forced from office for not supporting it earlier?

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