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  1. #11
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't even like all children. But I'm not a child hater or anything.

  2. #12
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    They still have some reasonable demands, as well as representatives. The loud and obnoxious ones seem to stand out, but that's true for pretty much any group.

    A while ago, a female friend went on a date with a guy who tried to convince her that giving flowers is a form of oppression.

    She ditched him, which means there's hope for humanity.

  3. #13
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Edit: She's making good points...about same-sex relationships as well...

    Last edited by yeghor; 04-07-2014 at 11:44 PM. Reason: Edit

  4. #14
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    who tried to convince her that giving flowers is a form of oppression.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  5. #15
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Exactly. :P

  6. #16
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Isn't feminism just another form of collectivist prejudice in the same sense that racism is? Racists make sweeping generalizations about the allegedly malevolent intentions of people of different skin color, but don't the feminists do the same thing?
    The term "feminist" is a sweeping generalization in and of itself. I suppose [insert term for those seeking to rectify gender bias] practice collectivist prejudice by focusing on women vs. men in the same way that proponents of civil rights for blacks practiced collective prejudice by discussing issues in racial terms. It is almost impossible to discuss disparities between groups of people without generalizing about those groups. Problems arise when one forgets that the groups are not in fact monolithic and homogeneous, and treats the generalizations as set in stone rather than as the convenient shorthands that they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Collectively, the white people have done a lot of harm to the blacks by colonizing their territories. You could argue that collectively, men have done the same to women over millennia.

    Yet in both cases, the harmful actions were not caused by any malevolent intentions. The Europeans were merely pursuing their self-interest by seeking to expand their empires and patriarchs did likewise by seeking to extend their personal power.
    Your definition of harmful intent is very limited. These actions were motivated by a fundamental view of the harmed group as somehow less human than the harming group. In situations where, e.g. white Europeans want to pursue their interests violently against other white Europeans, this dehumanization has to be manufactured, usually by propaganda. Witness the stories being told during WWI by the English about the Germans, and vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    The pioneers of feminist thought such as Mary Wollstonecraft and Jane Austen endeavored to address the structural causes of gender inequity. They focused on institutional, economic, sociocultural and political aspects of the problem. By and large, the severest of problems of patriarchy have been resolved. That is evident in light of the fact that a significant percentage of prestigious professional positions are held by women.
    I agree with this conclusion, but not with the reasoning for it. We don't judge strides in gender equity by looking at the most prestigious positions, but rather at the least. How many women are in poverty, relative to men? How has life improved for the average working woman? India and Bangladesh have both had women heads of government; if we judge by the top of the ladder, they should then be ahead of the U.S. in overall opportunity and rights for women, but they are not.

    Many of the obvious, overt, easily rectified inequities have indeed been addressed. What that leaves is the underlying network of assumptions and reflexes that sees women and men as inherently different enough to justify fundamentally different treatment, solely on the basis of gender. This mindset is as hard to shed as those last few pounds for someone trying to lose weight. Men are limited by this as much as women. This is the real misandry.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #17
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    In many ways, feminism has become a repurposing of Marxism where men are the bourgeoisie and women are the proletariat.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #18
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Hmmm. Feminism. What is there to say? First of all feminism is a movement which attemps to make women equal to men. This supposes usually that womens problems are purely socioeconomic, that all problems have roots in socioeconomic ones. Obviously this isnt true, even though Im not argueing these problems dont exist, just that our modern day society based on representative democracy as the supreme recipe good for all mankind seems wrong to me. I do think however that giving women equal rights to men is good. However it already exists, at least on paper. Not in Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to drive or walk down the street without the presence of a man they know. I want women and men to be equal, but I feel in western society this is already the case mostly
    and that discriminitation some women encounter in the work place isnt something Im gonna fight to change, as Im not certain of my own capacity to succeed in society to begin with. As far as feminism inspiring misandry in some its not something Im hugely worried about, either

  9. #19
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Hmmm. Feminism. What is there to say? First of all feminism is a movement which attemps to make women equal to men. This supposes usually that womens problems are purely socioeconomic, that all problems have roots in socioeconomic ones. Obviously this isnt true, even though Im not argueing these problems dont exist, just that our modern day society based on representative democracy as the supreme recipe good for all mankind seems wrong to me. I do think however that giving women equal rights to men is good. However it already exists, at least on paper. Not in Saudi Arabia, where women are not allowed to drive or walk down the street without the presence of a man they know. I want women and men to be equal, but I feel in western society this is already the case mostly
    and that discriminitation some women encounter in the work place isnt something Im gonna fight to change, as Im not certain of my own capacity to succeed in society to begin with. As far as feminism inspiring misandry in some its not something Im hugely worried about, either
    At least in the U.S., it still does not exist on paper. We have yet to ratify a constitutional amendment stating that equality under the law shall not be abridged on the basis of sex. That being said, the law sometimes does lead public practice, which can lead to significant problems in enforcement. We saw this during the struggle for civil rights for blacks. The best thing for people who care about the issue to do is to model in their own lives the example they would like to set, and to speak up on those specific occasions when gender bias occurs.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Is this @greenfairy?

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