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  1. #81
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I do have sympathy for them. Moving on is difficult. It can be like overcoming an addiction and/or being bereaved. Usually the emotional abuse that goes along with it degrades your feelings of worth and confidence. It is meant to keep you off balance and vulnerable to them. Some stay in order to be with and protect their kids. And men have virtually no support for overcoming this. I do not know for certain, but I'm guessing most shelters for domestic violence victims do not provide housing for men and their children. Women have a lot more resources available to them and many still have a very difficult time leaving an abusive partner.
    I can see where you're coming from, yet I still stop and wonder; what is the 'but for' cause for such an addiction?

    Are you suggesting that some people don't feel worthy enough for kindness and respect? [Ridiculous to me.]

  2. #82
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A window to the soul View Post
    I can see where you're coming from, yet I still stop and wonder; what is the 'but for' cause for such an addiction?

    Are you suggesting that some people don't feel worthy enough for kindness and respect? [Ridiculous to me.]
    I would say unfortunate, and entirely too common. It is not limited to women, but many women still are raised with the mentality that they need a man - to be complete, to have social status, to get by in the world, even for ongoing material support. Women who do not question it and fall into relationships that are traditional in the sense that they do rely on a man for material support can lack the financial wherewithal to make a go of things on their own, especially if there is no alternative support system available. Staying in the relationship and accepting the abuse can look like the path of least resistance, especially if there are children.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #83
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A window to the soul View Post
    I can see where you're coming from, yet I still stop and wonder; what is the 'but for' cause for such an addiction?

    Are you suggesting that some people don't feel worthy enough for kindness and respect? [Ridiculous to me.]
    It is to me, too, but I was raised by a family that cherished me. Not everyone is so fortunate. I cannot say with any certainty that that is the only thing that makes people vulnerable to abuse, though.

    My aunt was educated, had a lot of self-confidence, had a good job, and close ties to her family, but she stayed with my uncle, who physically abused her and cheated on her. She loved him till the day she died and made excuses for him the whole time. Everything he had was because of her and her family and she raised his two sons by his previous wife. It's not the only case of that kind of thing I've seen, either. I'm sure there are men in similar situations.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #84
    A window to the soul
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I would say unfortunate, and entirely too common. It is not limited to women, but many women still are raised with the mentality that they need a man - to be complete, to have social status, to get by in the world, even for ongoing material support. Women who do not question it and fall into relationships that are traditional in the sense that they do rely on a man for material support can lack the financial wherewithal to make a go of things on their own, especially if there is no alternative support system available. Staying in the relationship and accepting the abuse can look like the path of least resistance, especially if there are children.
    I understand. I love someone that wastes my time and resources, only to go back to the abuse. I would kick his sorry ass, if it would help, but it wouldn't. I throw up my hands now. (Siblings are forever.)

  5. #85
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Call me ignorant but I'm surprised to read how many men have been physically threatened and abused by women.
    I think it's pretty normal, many guys sooner or later date a somewhat emotionally unstable girl/woman (of course the reverse is equally true).
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  6. #86
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    We're not supposed to, but women get angry too and act out - and we have the victim card and peoples expectations on our side. So I'm not entirely surprised to see some of them abusing it for their very own punchbag purposes.
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  7. #87
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    I've seen plenty of people actually make light of not just domestic violence against men, but sexual assault against them as well. Most of the time when I hear a tasteless rape joke or see a "comedic" scene involving rape or domestic violence, a man is the victim. There's a ton of gratuitious violence against women in entertainment as well, but at least it isn't usually played for laughs. Also, a few years ago I read something in a newspaper about how male victims of domestic violence are on average taken less seriously by the police and the justice system.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    ... but there is this thick, cloudy context scrubbing that all up with men: men tend to not want to be defended by women in public. There is this social stigma there.. and I don't at all agree with it, but I don't deny that it is there. I've literally had men tell me to my face that they'd rather be beaten until an inch of their life was left than to have me jump into a fight to help them. That it's literally shameful.
    I think the reason why some men wouldn't want to be helped by a woman during a fight is the same as why many male D.V. victims don't speak out - a fear of being pitied or ridiculed, or at least of not being taken seriously. There's this unfortunate (but thankfully changing) attitude that a "real man" is stronger than/superior to/dominant over women, and that if a man needs help from a woman or can't "deal with" aggression from one he's an emasculated wuss. (Just one example of how our society's standards of masculinity are actually harmful to men.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Then they use concepts like "privilege" to further dismiss men's perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    That technique really upsets me. I went to a liberal arts school which was like 70% women (and in a lot of classes, I was the only guy), and every time I said anything in Gender Studies class, I heard "check your privilege". Men have problems too--check your privilege!--I wasn't saying I had it worse I was ju--check your privilege!--nice weather we're hav--check your privilege!
    I see many people, both men and women, showing that kind of dismissive attitude toward the opposite sex, that "war of the sexes" mentality, and it's really counter-productive to achieving genuine equality. I don't think that most feminists have this attitude, but the ones that do perpetuate all this misunderstanding - it's the the reason why the word "feminist" has negative, misandrist connotations to some people. In my opinion, one of the most important goals of feminism (as well as anti-racism, the pro-LGBT rights movement, etc.) is to create a more equal and respectful society by tearing down barriers to interpersonal understanding and empathy, not to put up new ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It is not possible to know anything about the experiences of individual based upon their physical traits, but that's what people try to do with privilege.
    Yeah, I've seen plenty of hypocritical "anti-prejudice" people forget this and show plenty of prejudice themselves. (I'm not denying that certain people are statistically more likely to encounter discrimination, but it's ridiculous to just look at one individual and assume you know what their life has been like.) It really just adds to the problem and puts up more of the aforementioned barriers. In my opinion, the most important goal of any anti-prejudice movement is to encourage people to view others as unique individuals rather than as stereotypes or solely in terms of their group associations. (Even when the stereotypes or groups are thought of positively).

  8. #88
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think it's pretty normal, many guys sooner or later date a somewhat emotionally unstable girl/woman (of course the reverse is equally true).
    Clearly the crazies are everywhere.
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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

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  9. #89
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Privilege is a bankrupt concept. Human social interaction is mathematically chaotic. It is not possible to know anything about the experiences of individual based upon their physical traits, but that's what people try to do with privilege. If you're black, privilege says you must have been disadvantaged. And while that might be true about blacks, generally, you cannot say that with certainty about any individual. Whether or not someone is disadvantaged due to skin color depends on a lot of variables which are invisible to us.
    This seems to me to be a dismissal of the entire field of sociology at best, and possibly a dismissal of the entire concept of probability at worst.
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  10. #90
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This seems to me to be a dismissal of the entire field of sociology at best, and possibly a dismissal of the entire concept of probability at worst.
    The entire field of sociology could be dismissed and the world would be better off. It's a crime that some people even call sociology a science. The scientific method cannot be applied. Sociology is the pinnacle of weak-ass pseudo science. The closest it can come to anything resembling science is with epidemiological studies, but even those are nothing compared to controlled experiments.

    "Soft sciences" like sociology and economics are places where bad ideas run rampant. Fuck, I hate the term "soft science". It's not fucking science. It's a bunch of shit people make up that no one can disprove. It's no better than religion. Seriously MP, how would you test and falsify the Privilege Hypothesis? You can't because it's not possible.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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