User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 103

  1. #51
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I was once being hit in the face repeatedly by my girlfriend during a fight, and I remember this huge fear that if I even touched her one bit, even in defense (and maybe even if I didn't, as, who knows, if the cops were to be called, she might just lie about it, or they might just take me away anyway), I would be spending the night (and possibly more) in jail, facing domestic violence charges, and have this incident show up permanently on my record, any time I apply for a job, or anywhere else that does a background check (and that she would have absolutely nothing happen to her).

    That is why I think this is actually a genuine and fucked-up problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Exactly, I just never knew how to defend myself. They keep hitting you, and BOY! Do you ever want to at least take steps to physically stop them. Sometimes she would bait me, play head games, smack me again, literally daring me to hit her. I'm not an aggressive person, but sheesh. It was messed up. What do you do? You know how it will look to a judge and just about everyone else in the world.
    You leave. Male or female, you don't stay one moment in an abusive relationship. Men as well as women need to learn to stand up for themselves in these situations. Men need to overcome the embarrassment from possibly appearing "weak", just as women need to overcome the fear of additional abuse, and the dependence that too often keeps them in bad relationships. (Sounds like some guys have dependence to overcome as well.) Sadly men still usually have more wherewithal to manage the logistics of leaving, especially when there are children involved.

    Kyuuei raises a related and valid point:

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    ... but there is this thick, cloudy context scrubbing that all up with men: men tend to not want to be defended by women in public. There is this social stigma there.. and I don't at all agree with it, but I don't deny that it is there. I've literally had men tell me to my face that they'd rather be beaten until an inch of their life was left than to have me jump into a fight to help them. That it's literally shameful. Now, that trend IS changing... and I think as stronger women are becoming more acceptable, it is becoming more common place to see (in UFC, gym-rat posts and pictures and videos, a change in what 'skinny and fit' is defined as, comedians openly admitting their girlfriends are more aggressive than they are, etc. etc.) and thus more situational things like "Yeah, I'm okay with a girl twat-blocking for me, and saving me from a potentially uncomfortable situation." are pretty common now.
    Men have to work on eliminating this stigma and changing attitudes. They don't have to take abuse from women; they do need to get help when necessary; and they do need to let women stick up for them. Otherwise, they are reinforcing the same double standard the men here are rightfully complaining about. (How's that for equal opportunity victim blaming?)
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #52
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    So when Russia annexes Crimea with plans of a possible takeover of all of the Ukraine, you're saying it's Russia's job to stop annexing countries? Ever heard of "fighting back"?
    I don't think that's a very good comparison. Most women are not that much stronger than most men as Russia is than Ukraine. Using unnecessary force is usually bad. I don't consider it justifiable unless you cannot get out of the situation, like in school or in jail. In those cases you have to not just hurt them badly enough that they will never try to mess with you again, you may have to send a message to other people who may consider abusing you. Generally, you can get away from people in non-institutional settings.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #53
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,905

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Female violence is a serious problem, especially when you take into account that females are more often caregivers of children. Abused children are far more likely to be violent than children who are not abused. If you want to get the most bang for your buck when it comes to violence, stop child abuse.
    Regardless of sex, adult to child abuse is an entirely different kind of situation. What's more, I'm not sure how the double standard Rasofy is talking about would apply to that situation. I don't believe a female adult gets away with abusing a male child any more than the other way around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think more of it has to do with the demonization of males. Too many people believed the men deserved it, without having any specific knowledge.
    I'm going to go more with Coriolis's hypothesis in part because of what men say on the topic of things like men being raped by women. You've seen it here on this forum. A lot of guys have a chuckle at it and refuse to take is seriously because, obviously, a woman isn't a real threat.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  4. #54
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    2,340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You leave. Male or female, you don't stay one moment in an abusive relationship. Men as well as women need to learn to stand up for themselves in these situations. Men need to overcome the embarrassment from possibly appearing "weak", just as women need to overcome the fear of additional abuse, and the dependence that too often keeps them in bad relationships. (Sounds like some guys have dependence to overcome as well.) Sadly men still usually have more wherewithal to manage the logistics of leaving, especially when there are children involved.
    Sure, it's just tricky. She was very entangled in my everyday life (same bus, same classes, mutual friends, small town). But yeah, I know. I totally would never put up with her now, complications be damned. I was still a teen when it went down, live and learn.

    I don't deny that I had power to stop it. It's just hard to make the right decisions when you're saddled with all the weird emotional baggage that comes with any situation. I have a tendency to just dissociate from the situation when bad things happen. From a very early age I learned to leave my body, and I need to unlearn that. It's not helpful

    Kyuuei raises a related and valid point:

    Men have to work on eliminating this stigma and changing attitudes. They don't have to take abuse from women; they do need to get help when necessary; and they do need to let women stick up for them. Otherwise, they are reinforcing the same double standard the men here are rightfully complaining about. (How's that for equal opportunity victim blaming?)
    A great point indeed. I agree that men do have to work at removing this stigma. So do women. We all have to work together to make this a better world. I think that's the problem some guys have with feminism, they feel like feminism excludes them, and their issues (and for some self-proclaimed feminists it does), when really it doesn't. I think a lot of the issues that affect men, are the result of a patriarchal society messing with them. It's a big miscommunication. Feminism is not men vs. women (or at least it shouldn't be), it benefits everyone.

    Also, ftr, I did let women stick up for me, two of my besties (girls) were instrumental in getting me out of there.

  5. #55
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Women may be weaker, but it's not as if a woman can't stab a man.

    I was once being hit in the face repeatedly by my girlfriend during a fight, and I remember this huge fear that if I even touched her one bit, even in defense (and maybe even if I didn't, as, who knows, if the cops were to be called, she might just lie about it, or they might just take me away anyway), I would be spending the night (and possibly more) in jail, facing domestic violence charges, and have this incident show up permanently on my record, any time I apply for a job, or anywhere else that does a background check (and that she would have absolutely nothing happen to her).

    That is why I think this is actually a genuine and fucked-up problem.

    And one that really gets little to no attention paid to it at all.
    ˆˆˆˆˆˆˆTHIS

    Cops will automatically arrest you if your girlfriend is trying to beat the crap out of you and in your defense, you've grabbed her arms and left bruises. More or less.


    True story time:
    Friend got arrested for domestic abuse, we'll call him Bob: Bob's girlfriend was a psycho. Bob's best galpal in the whole wide world came into town to say hi. Her real name was (fuck it like it matters) Anne. The girlfriend, Sarah literally says "Hey Anne! good to see you!" and holds out her arms like she's going to hug her, instead she decks her in the face and Anne falls into the bathtub (they were close to the door) bleeding profusely out her nose. Sarah then decks Bob. Bob, being a huge vaginer, does NOTHING. Anne says to Bob, "What the fuck!! Aren't you going to do something?" Bob does nothing, and Anne storms out the door a bit pissed at Bob.

    Bob then sleeps with Sarah, then later in the morning, when Sarah orders him to change the ipod music, she hits him in the fucking face, again! He then says, "ok you've had this coming" and smacks her.

    Was he right for hitting a women in this scenario? I don't know, and I'm not even going to go there, but Sarah did indeed call the cops and Bob was arrested and had to attend 100 hours of community service and 30 sessions of anger management.

    True story, I shit you not. I heard it from Bob and Anne. Both stories added up.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #56
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't think that's a very good comparison. Most women are not that much stronger than most men as Russia is than Ukraine. Using unnecessary force is usually bad. I don't consider it justifiable unless you cannot get out of the situation, like in school or in jail. In those cases you have to not just hurt them badly enough that they will never try to mess with you again, you may have to send a message to other people who may consider abusing you. Generally, you can get away from people in non-institutional settings.
    It's definitely not a perfect analogy, but my bigger point was the aggressor, weaker or not, is not simply going to up and decide that it is their duty to stop. And fighting back does not imply hauling off and smacking a woman. But geeeez, can't a dude like at least hold her arms or something?
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  7. #57
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    For the record, abusing your spouse in any way is harmful. That's why it's called abuse.



    I think a lot of women DO speak out against it... But those women are not likely to do things like slap their men, either. Many men speak out against abusing women quite openly.. And bad people will be bad no matter which gender they are.. and doormat people will be doormats regardless of gender...

    ... but there is this thick, cloudy context scrubbing that all up with men: men tend to not want to be defended by women in public. There is this social stigma there.. and I don't at all agree with it, but I don't deny that it is there. I've literally had men tell me to my face that they'd rather be beaten until an inch of their life was left than to have me jump into a fight to help them. That it's literally shameful. Now, that trend IS changing... and I think as stronger women are becoming more acceptable, it is becoming more common place to see (in UFC, gym-rat posts and pictures and videos, a change in what 'skinny and fit' is defined as, comedians openly admitting their girlfriends are more aggressive than they are, etc. etc.) and thus more situational things like "Yeah, I'm okay with a girl twat-blocking for me, and saving me from a potentially uncomfortable situation." are pretty common now..

    .. But with REAL abuse.. that stigma does loom still. How do you assist that sort of mentality? It isn't an uncommon one.. and it's an idea I struggle with a lot..
    Is it so bad to expect a man to be stronger than his woman? Like, am I even having this discussion, am I dreaming? Last time I checked, it was pretty standard for a man to be a protector of his lady and/or family. In fact, I feel much more in touch with my masculinity when I am playing the role of protector. I've had girlfriends in previously abusive relationships that have told me they used to hate going out to bars or whatever, but with me they felt safe. And they were.

    And if I'm getting beat to death, a part of me would absolutely want my lady to jump in and try to help, but perhaps (and I can't say as I've never been in this situation) I would NOT want her to, for fear of her safety.

    I'm not sure if some people realize that manlier men, get a very real overwhelming sensation of self-sacrifice to protect those they love.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Regardless of sex, adult to child abuse is an entirely different kind of situation. What's more, I'm not sure how the double standard Rasofy is talking about would apply to that situation. I don't believe a female adult gets away with abusing a male child any more than the other way around.
    The attitudes that allow women to get away with hitting men also allow them to get away with abusing children. People always make excuses for why women are violent instead of holding them responsible to the same degree our society holds men responsible. Men, on the other hand, are viewed as inherently violent. There is no need for an explanation. He's male, of course he's violent.

    I'm going to go more with Coriolis's hypothesis in part because of what men say on the topic of things like men being raped by women. You've seen it here on this forum. A lot of guys have a chuckle at it and refuse to take is seriously because, obviously, a woman isn't a real threat.
    Both perspectives have an impact, but the demonization of males is in vogue right now.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #59
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Women may be weaker, but it's not as if a woman can't stab a man.

    And if she's crazy and enraged enough to be hitting him, how much more does it take to grab some scissors or a pencil or a knife.

    I was once being hit in the face repeatedly by my girlfriend during a fight, and I remember this huge fear that if I even touched her one bit, even in defense (and maybe even if I didn't, as, who knows, if the cops were to be called, she might just lie about it, or they might just take me away anyway), I would be spending the night (and possibly more) in jail, facing domestic violence charges, and have this incident show up permanently on my record, any time I apply for a job, or anywhere else that does a background check (and that she would have absolutely nothing happen to her).

    That is why I think this is actually a genuine and fucked-up problem.

    And one that really gets little to no attention paid to it at all.
    I agree with you.

    I took a class on domestic violence as part of my undergrad degree and we spent much time discussing men as victims, and why the statistics for men reporting abuse are so terribly low. There's social shame involved as well as disbelief on the part of the police as well as prejudice against men in the court systems that deal with these issues. If I'm not mistaken, I think the lack of reporting in male-male domestic violence is suspected to be even worse given the even greater social shame and lack of same-sex legal protection.

    Forgive me for dragging it back in, but I don't see why being an advocate of women's rights is interpreted as not being an advocate of men's rights. On the contrary - I am an advocate for human rights. In my eyes an abuse against any of us is an abuse against all of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung
    I think a lot of the issues that affect men, are the result of a patriarchal society messing with them. It's a big miscommunication. Feminism is not men vs. women (or at least it shouldn't be), it benefits everyone.
    Yes, exactly! This is how it should work. I know it doesn't always. And sure, we could find a less women-centric concept name than "feminism", like "gender equality". Regardless though. What hurts either of us hurts all of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus
    Both perspectives have an impact, but the demonization of males is in vogue right now.
    That is true, and I agree with your points about men being stereotyped as violent and being held more responsible. But of course the impacts of suppression of women do still have sway in the world. So I don't think we can really just identify one or the other that is the problem. They both fuel one another's fire. I think it would be much more effective to group both together and address them as part of the same phenomenon of unequal treatment rather than to attempt to split them up.

  10. #60
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    It's definitely not a perfect analogy, but my bigger point was the aggressor, weaker or not, is not simply going to up and decide that it is their duty to stop. And fighting back does not imply hauling off and smacking a woman. But geeeez, can't a dude like at least hold her arms or something?
    Male or female, use necessary force to get away and drop them like a hot rock. Press charges if appropriate.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

Similar Threads

  1. [ISFJ] What are ISFJs like when it comes to lying?
    By KarenParker in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-19-2009, 08:17 AM
  2. Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-16-2009, 03:19 AM
  3. [ISFP] Why I'm a total wuss when it comes to horror movies..
    By Dali in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 09-21-2008, 09:38 AM
  4. [MBTItm] When it comes to Love and Dating -- how do you roll?
    By CzeCze in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-27-2007, 04:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO