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  1. #91
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The entire field of sociology could be dismissed and the world would be better off. It's a crime that some people even call sociology a science. The scientific method cannot be applied. Sociology is the pinnacle of weak-ass pseudo science. The closest it can come to anything resembling science is with epidemiological studies, but even those are nothing compared to controlled experiments.

    "Soft sciences" like sociology and economics are places where bad ideas run rampant. Fuck, I hate the term "soft science". It's not fucking science. It's a bunch of shit people make up that no one can disprove. It's no better than religion. Seriously MP, how would you test and falsify the Privilege Hypothesis? You can't because it's not possible.
    I myself actually reject the term social science. I feel that something has to be able to apply scientific methods 100% to have that name. Sociology applies some methods that set it apart from a humanity, but it cannot do all that a science like biology can do, particularly actual controlled experiments.

    The thing is, something doesn't have to be a science in the very narrow sense of the so-called hard sciences to be of some use. Data can still be collected and analyzed, and if anything technology has on many fronts only made the aims of sociology less idealistic than they've ever been. Some products of sociology, like social networking theory, are quite practically applicable.

    Basically, in terms of determining causality, a field like sociology can go halfway. It can observe, but it is very, very difficult to do a sociological intervention, which means causality runs a higher chance of being under-determined. That being said, while association is not causation, it also isn't meaningless, and at least to some (admittedly much more limited) extent, associations within a great deal of data and a couple of simple heuristics can reveal causes to us. It can do so well enough that it would be a better use of our time to actually seek this information than to dismiss everything as chaos and not bother with social studies.

    What you're really getting at is the fact that sociology is probably the highest order field with bothered classifying as a so-called field (competes with its close relative, anthropology). This means a ton of variables, and a ton of variables means more imperfect information, and more imperfect information means it is less deterministic. But there is a difference between true randomness and probability. I personally think the universe is probably deterministic, and apparent probability is only ever the result of incomplete information, which means nothing is actually truly random and so nothing is incapable of being potentially determined. This means even in sociology the data we take in isn't going to be mere noise, and treating it as such is a sort of willful ignorance.

    There's some very interesting ventures into applying the sort of math typically found in quantum-mechanics to human behavior. There are some in the field who are arguing that it is more useful. Perhaps you should look into it.

    I think the social studies are full of hucksters, particularly the field of economics, but I don't think that's because the field itself is impossible. It's the people and a culture that has unfortunately emerged amongst those particular academics. It's happened to even the most deterministic of sciences at times.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #92
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I have never understood why anyone would put up with abusive behavior. It surprised me when they said in the video that women hit more than men.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  3. #93
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I have never understood why anyone would put up with abusive behavior. It surprised me when they said in the video that women hit more than men.
    It makes a lot of since though, they are more likely to get away with it.

  5. #95
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    It's ok.

    We know you're talking about this woman:





    ...and no one else.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Planning?

    Honestly, what kind of fucking vice is planning?

    No wonder so many people answered 7 in the "what enneagram type would you be?" thread.

    How about lust? Or envy? Or greed?

    I get what they're pointing at with "planning"...

    But it doesn't convey the 7's issue at all...

    Their issue is never being happy (enough) with what they got.

    They're always thinkin bout how that grass looks greener over there.

  7. #97
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Planning?

    Honestly, what kind of fucking vice is planning?

    No wonder so many people answered 7 in the "what enneagram type would you be?" thread?
    Picture an e7 ENTP that made plans to become a rock star yesterday, and today is planning to become an astronaut and explore Mars. He can't help it. Doesn't work that well for Se-doms though.

    Don't seem to work so well for e7 Se-doms though.

    How about lust? Or envy? Or greed?

    I get what they're pointing at with "planning"...

    But it doesn't convey the 7s issue at all...

    Their issue is never being happy (enough) with what they got.

    They're always thinkin bout how that grass looks greener over there.
    Good points.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I myself actually reject the term social science. I feel that something has to be able to apply scientific methods 100% to have that name. Sociology applies some methods that set it apart from a humanity, but it cannot do all that a science like biology can do, particularly actual controlled experiments.

    The thing is, something doesn't have to be a science in the very narrow sense of the so-called hard sciences to be of some use. Data can still be collected and analyzed, and if anything technology has on many fronts only made the aims of sociology less idealistic than they've ever been. Some products of sociology, like social networking theory, are quite practically applicable.

    Basically, in terms of determining causality, a field like sociology can go halfway. It can observe, but it is very, very difficult to do a sociological intervention, which means causality runs a higher chance of being under-determined. That being said, while association is not causation, it also isn't meaningless, and at least to some (admittedly much more limited) extent, associations within a great deal of data and a couple of simple heuristics can reveal causes to us. It can do so well enough that it would be a better use of our time to actually seek this information than to dismiss everything as chaos and not bother with social studies.

    What you're really getting at is the fact that sociology is probably the highest order field with bothered classifying as a so-called field (competes with its close relative, anthropology). This means a ton of variables, and a ton of variables means more imperfect information, and more imperfect information means it is less deterministic. But there is a difference between true randomness and probability. I personally think the universe is probably deterministic, and apparent probability is only ever the result of incomplete information, which means nothing is actually truly random and so nothing is incapable of being potentially determined. This means even in sociology the data we take in isn't going to be mere noise, and treating it as such is a sort of willful ignorance.

    There's some very interesting ventures into applying the sort of math typically found in quantum-mechanics to human behavior. There are some in the field who are arguing that it is more useful. Perhaps you should look into it.

    I think the social studies are full of hucksters, particularly the field of economics, but I don't think that's because the field itself is impossible. It's the people and a culture that has unfortunately emerged amongst those particular academics. It's happened to even the most deterministic of sciences at times.
    I can understand making very specific claims based strictly upon data, but that's not what Privilege is. It's a very broad, vague concept that's not based upon anything more than stereotypes. In many ways, it's just another form or racism/sexism/etc.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #99
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I can understand making very specific claims based strictly upon data, but that's not what Privilege is. It's a very broad, vague concept that's not based upon anything more than stereotypes. In many ways, it's just another form or racism/sexism/etc.
    What do you mean by this?

    Because there are definitely different outcomes here based on whether we can operationalize privilege, vs privilege as a term that may be used by so-and-so on an internet forum. There is always an issue in operationalization in trying to come up with a measurement variable that actually indicates the conceptual variable of interest, and nothing will be perfect. That, however, is a problem that even biologists and physicians have to deal with.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right

  10. #100
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What do you mean by this?

    Because there are definitely different outcomes here based on whether we can operationalize privilege, vs privilege as a term that may be used by so-and-so on an internet forum. There is always an issue in operationalization in trying to come up with a measurement variable that actually indicates the conceptual variable of interest, and nothing will be perfect. That, however, is a problem that even biologists and physicians have to deal with.
    My wife, who is a doctor, laughs at the idea of medicine being called a science (we've discussed it many times). It's really not. There are attempts to make medicine more science-like, but it's too far removed from hard sciences. Medicine is built on biology, which is built on chemistry, which is built on physics. By the time you get to medicine, it's difficult to find any truth. But unlike sociology, we can at least perform medical experiments. While we may not always understand why certain things happen or be able to make precise predictions, we can figure out that certain things do happen (sometimes). With sociology, which is also built upon physics->chemistry->biology->, we can't even perform experiments. So what does sociology use in place of double-blind controlled experiments? Human bias, which includes stereotypes.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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