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  1. #71
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If the rapist is someone else, a properly employed rape kit will contain evidence to that effect.
    That does not prove you didn't also rape the accuser.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #72
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As an unhappy medium, I would say our society does not do nearly enough to discourage rape and other forms of sexual assault.
    fair enough.
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  3. #73
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Comparing rape to a property crime is kind of silly. Compare it to murder instead. When there are deaths, the police don't assume every death is a murder. Most deaths are from natural causes. There has to be some indication that there was foul play before the police investigate whether or not there was a homicide.
    Police usually take someone's report that "my wife/brother/neighbor, etc. has been murdered" as an indication of foul play. A claim of rape should be treated similarly. Assuming every death is a murder would be equivalent to assuming every sex act is a rape. It is precisely in order to call police attention to those that are that we report them.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #74
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If the rapist is someone else, a properly employed rape kit will contain evidence to that effect.
    They are very helpful. Yet part of the problem is that many times rape kits just aren't tested and used as evidence.

  5. #75
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    They are very helpful. Yet part of the problem is that many times rape kits just aren't tested and used as evidence.
    Then let's get rape kits tested (and distributed and used to begin with), rather than leave innocent men to languish in jail pending analysis of less conclusive evidence. We need to solve problems by taking steps that actually address them, and not simply make people feel like they are doing something. Many bad laws are created in the latter spirit.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #76
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Then let's get rape kits tested (and distributed and used to begin with), rather than leave innocent men to languish in jail pending analysis of less conclusive evidence. We need to solve problems by taking steps that actually address them, and not simply make people feel like they are doing something. Many bad laws are created in the latter spirit.
    True. And what I'm proposing is not assuming guilt of any specific person, but as you suggested a change in attitude. Assuming that it's highly probable that the victim is telling the truth that she was raped.

  7. #77
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    True. And what I'm proposing is not assuming guilt of any specific person, but as you suggested a change in attitude. Assuming that it's highly probable that the victim is telling the truth that she was raped.
    Yes, just as we do with any other crime. It might turn out that the neighbor wasn't murdered, or your car wasn't stolen. But police don't usually focus on asking the theft victim: "Did you lock the doors?", "Why do you own such an expensive car, anyway, and why did you park it in a shabby part of town?" "Did it never occur to you to get lojack or a car alarm?" We don't blame the victim in these cases, unless the investigation ultimately points to a false accusation.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #78
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Yes, just as we do with any other crime. It might turn out that the neighbor wasn't murdered, or your car wasn't stolen. But police don't usually focus on asking the theft victim: "Did you lock the doors?", "Why do you own such an expensive car, anyway, and why did you park it in a shabby part of town?" "Did it never occur to you to get lojack or a car alarm?" We don't blame the victim in these cases, unless the investigation ultimately points to a false accusation.
    Exactly.

  9. #79
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Yes, just as we do with any other crime. It might turn out that the neighbor wasn't murdered, or your car wasn't stolen. But police don't usually focus on asking the theft victim: "Did you lock the doors?", "Why do you own such an expensive car, anyway, and why did you park it in a shabby part of town?" "Did it never occur to you to get lojack or a car alarm?" We don't blame the victim in these cases, unless the investigation ultimately points to a false accusation.
    Yep. That's what I want. I believe very much in due process. But I do not believe in treating victims like they are suspects.
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    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com...ke-the-answer/
    Based on a British study, with link to the study.
    Mythcommunication: It’s Not That They Don’t Understand, They Just Don’t Like The Answer


    It's also a problem with this culture that's it's a norm to attempt to persuade a woman to have sex with you or date you by providing her with alcohol (or pressuring her into accepting alcohol to not look rude), and yet the burden is on women to not drink too much. Because an intoxicated woman cannot give consent. Meaning she basically has to decide whether she wants to have sex with a guy before she accepts a drink from him, or refuse more drinks, or buy her own and then tell him to go away.

    This is one reason I avoid bars and only drink in situations when I know I'm not going to be approached for sex. But that's me. If I want casual sex I'll look online and get coffee with him. But my preferences shouldn't be the only right option for women. We should be able to drink as much as we want and accept offers of drinks without it being understood as an automatic 'yes, I want to have sex with you'. Women's bodies are automatically not anyone else's, unless it's absolutely clear that we give permission to share them. And that's something most guys don't like.

    http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com...the-predators/
    Here's another link from the same blog. And it's written by a man. Studies find that the vast majority of rapists use substances as their weapon, target acquaintances, and are repeat offenders. So in these cases it's not a case of "miscommunication".


    Edit: another lovely blog post about rape:
    http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/...-about-rape-3/
    If women are raised being told by parents, teachers, media, peers, and all surrounding social strata that:

    it is not okay to set solid and distinct boundaries and reinforce them immediately and dramatically when crossed (“mean bitch”)
    it is not okay to appear distraught or emotional (“crazy bitch”)
    it is not okay to make personal decisions that the adults or other peers in your life do not agree with, and it is not okay to refuse to explain those decisions to others (“stuck-up bitch”)
    it is not okay to refuse to agree with somebody, over and over and over again (“angry bitch”)
    it is not okay to have (or express) conflicted, fluid, or experimental feelings about yourself, your body, your sexuality, your desires, and your needs (“bitch got daddy issues”)
    it is not okay to use your physical strength (if you have it) to set physical boundaries (“dyke bitch”)
    it is not okay to raise your voice (“shrill bitch”)
    it is not okay to completely and utterly shut down somebody who obviously likes you (“mean dyke/frigid bitch”)

    If we teach women that there are only certain ways they may acceptably behave, we should not be surprised when they behave in those ways.

    And we should not be surprised when they behave these ways during attempted or completed rapes.

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