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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Yes. When people talk about rape they have a tendency to focus on the perpetrators and their future and character (which is problematic in itself, as it's the victim who is important, and hir future is just as affected); they talk about all the good qualities of the rapists- their accomplishments and the fact that they seemed like a good person in general.
    Are you talking about before or after conviction?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    When people throw around the term "rape culture", they're talking about the US. It's an attempt to shame people for not being overzealous in hating accused rapists. If someone is accused of rape, you're supposed to assume they're guilty until they're proven innocent, otherwise you're a supporter of rape culture. You can't even abstain. Abstention is supporting "rape culture". It turns the whole innocent until proven guilty value of Western culture on its head.
    And this is wrong, why? Because false rape accusations comprise only about 2% and are usually racially motivated? Yes, I think we should enthusiastically hate rapists if that's what it takes to enthusiastically hate rape and discourage it. I'm pretty sure it's not just the US either.

  3. #23
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Are you talking about before or after conviction?
    During and after. Before it's split about 50/50 between trying to defend the accused rapist and interrogating the victim and figuring out how to blame her.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    And this is wrong, why? Because false rape accusations comprise only about 2% and are usually racially motivated? Yes, I think we should enthusiastically hate rapists if that's what it takes to enthusiastically hate rape and discourage it. I'm pretty sure it's not just the US either.
    Well, I'm glad you're honest in admitting that you think we should automatically believe all rape accusations. I want other people to see the term "rape culture" for what it really is.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I want to point out that I believe people should just STFU when there is a rape accusation. Let's the justice system do its work.

    Something I had never looked into before was the prevalence of false rape accusations. I assumed the number was really low. Green Fairy claims that 2% of allegations are false. According to this wiki, anywhere from 1.5% to 90% of rape allegations are false. I don't find that large disparity surprising. Rape is an incredibly difficult crime to prove. And that's not a result of (rape) culture. That's just an unfortunate matter of circumstance and there's really nothing we can do to change that, short of having the NSA watch everyone 24/7.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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  7. #27
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I don't understand how something can happen to one in six of half of our population and people still think it's all in our heads.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't understand how something can happen to one in six of half of our population and people still think it's all in our heads.
    Who said rape is in your head? The fact that people are raped does not mean there is a "rape culture". That's non sequitur.

    I challenge you to find a single American who is not an internet troll to say rape is not a bad thing.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #29
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Who said rape is in your head? The fact that people are raped does not mean there is a "rape culture". That's non sequitur.

    I challenge you to find a single American who is not an internet troll to say rape is not a bad thing.
    They will say it is a bad thing, of course. Everyone will say that. Rapists will agree.

    The problem is that they don't understand what rape is. They think it is a stranger in a dark alley and that is a rare occurrence. Most rapists don't even think of themselves as rapists.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #30
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    They will say it is a bad thing, of course. Everyone will say that. Rapists will agree.

    The problem is that they don't understand what rape is. They think it is a stranger in a dark alley and that is a rare occurrence. Most rapists don't even think of themselves as rapists.
    Humans go through mental gymnastics to justify their actions. This isn't limited to rape. Does this mean that there is a "culture" for every type of wrongdoing in America?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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