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  1. #251
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Sex offenders pretty much deserve what they get.
    If all sex offenders were rapists and child molesters I would be more inclined to agree with you, but in some states people who are convicted of things like public urination also end up on the registry.

  2. #252
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    If all sex offenders were rapists and child molesters I would be more inclined to agree with you, but in some states people who are convicted of things like public urination also end up on the registry.
    Ok if that's true it is unjust, but it doesn't exactly relate to the discussion. If his friend was convicted of something stupid that's bad, but it has no relevance; if someone is falsely accused of rape and is convicted that is really bad (but really rare), and if someone is justly accused and convicted they get what they deserve.

  3. #253
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Ok if that's true it is unjust, but it doesn't exactly relate to the discussion. If his friend was convicted of something stupid that's bad, but it has no relevance; if someone is falsely accused of rape and is convicted that is really bad (but really rare), and if someone is justly accused and convicted they get what they deserve.
    It does relate to the discussion, because you said there was probably something wrong with someone who was still friends with a sex offender, after Elfboy said that TGO was. It's very relevant- if "sex offender" always meant rapist or child molester, I'd think twice about someone who would stay friends with that person, too, but we don't know that about TGO's friend or TGO. Don't get me wrong, I find a lot of what TGO posts abhorrent, but I don't think it's okay to cast aspersions on his character because he's friends with someone on a sex offender registry without knowing what the friend is on there for.

  4. #254
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    It does relate to the discussion, because you said there was probably something wrong with someone who was still friends with a sex offender, after Elfboy said that TGO was. It's very relevant- if "sex offender" always meant rapist or child molester, I'd think twice about someone who would stay friends with that person, too, but we don't know that about TGO's friend or TGO. Don't get me wrong, I find a lot of what TGO posts abhorrent, but I don't think it's okay to cast aspersions on his character because he's friends with someone on a sex offender registry without knowing what the friend is on there for.
    True, I missed that bit. If he's friends with someone who was convicted of something stupid then he's not a bad guy. I don't know though because I don't know either of them.

  5. #255
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    When my daughter reported her friend who posted naked pics of his minor ex-gf on facebook, the dean told my daughter she should have taken a screenshot of the pics for the police. My daughter is nineteen and she could have been charged with possession of child porn if she had done that and they she would be a sex offender. But the dean of her enormous high school did not apparently know that.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #256
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    @greenfairy
    I can't help but think that if someone is a sex offender there's something wrong with someone who is friends with him. Sex offenders pretty much deserve what they get. Unless his friend is one of the innocent and falsely accused. In which case that really sucks, but even so you can't use one incident to color your view of an entire situation.
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  7. #257
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    Well you can't. That's not consistent with principles of rationality any way you look at it. One incident does not make a trend or merit a generalization. Because it happened to one guy doesn't mean it happens to a lot of guys.

  8. #258
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Well you can't. That's not consistent with principles of rationality any way you look at it.
    1) bullshit. being friends with someone who is a sex offender (which, for the record, you don't even know what the guy did. he might have just gone streaking) does not say anything about one's character in and of itself
    2) that's not the point anyway. the point is that you're making absurd accusations about a good friend of mine. now sit yo ass down 'fo you get hurt!
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  9. #259
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    1) bullshit. being friends with someone who is a sex offender (which, for the record, you don't even know what the guy did. he might have just gone streaking) does not say anything about one's character in and of itself
    2) that's not the point anyway. the point is that you're making absurd accusations about a good friend of mine. now sit yo ass down 'fo you get hurt!
    I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I explicitly said I don't know what he did. If he did something stupid being friends with him is fine. BUT, if not, if he raped some person or something like that, no one should be friends with him and if a person is they are probably condoning whatever he did. That does say something about someone's character.

    Note the "IF". Don't make assumptions. I'm not going to assume he is innocent any more than that he is guilty. I don't know what he did, I don't know if he is guilty, I don't know if I would even believe him if TGO or he himself said he wasn't guilty because I wasn't there and I don't know the circumstances of the case. Since you don't know even know what he did, automatically defending him because he is a friend of a friend is just as problematic as assuming he is guilty. It is possible TGO is friends with a rapist or a child molester. Is it not? If there was a victim in the crime I'm going to give that person the benefit of the doubt that it is likely they are telling the truth, while not assuming it. Because it's statistically likely and victims deserve it.

  10. #260
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    @Elfboy, this is exactly the sort of mindset that supports rape culture and I'm not going to sugar coat it because you need to see it.

    You are automatically leaping to the defense of someone just because he is a friend of a friend, so you assume that 1) this makes him a good person and that 2) kind of decent people don't ever rape anyone. That second assumption is just plain false. So many defenses of the accused, especially of young men center around how they "seemed like such nice people" and they got good grades, were star athletes, had their whole lives ahead of them, everyone liked them, blah blah blah. Rapists can be nice to their friends, likable, charismatic, etc., just as serial killers can. What about the victim, if there was one? Do you know her/him? Does this person have just as many good qualities and friends who will leap to her defense and say she isn't lying? Maybe there isn't a victim in this case, but this scenario exists in cases where there is one, and it just becomes a situation of who and how many people stand up for someone just based on how popular they are. The accused should always be evaluated based on actual evidence, not subjective feelings of loyalty. A person's character does come into it, as in if they have characteristic patterns of behavior of people who actually commit these crimes, but you can't base a conviction or a lack thereof just based on subjectivity and values.

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