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  1. #91
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So most men are just rapists who haven't acted on their impulses yet.

    And comparing paying taxes to rape? Okay...
    Well, you know for a long time and in some places and minds still, it was not considered possible for a man to rape his wife or for a prostitute to be raped.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Greenfairy, you say some pretty offensive shit sometimes. The bolded basically calls most men rapists. I guess that's better than calling all men rapists, but not by much. With such a warped, misandrist view of the world, it's no wonder you want to circumvent the judicial process.
    Yeah Greenfairy, wtf. How can you hurt my feelings like this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    i have problems with a lot of what you said, but I'm just going to address this. The whole concept of rape culture is trying to draw to light that rape isn't confined to slums or red light districts. It's committed by plenty of men from "good families" or in positions of power. It's rarely some big, scary man in a mask breaking into your house and raping you in the night. I do agree that it will probably always exist, because there will always be assholes and people predisposed to that kind of behavior. But I think a major problem is just a poor understanding of boundaries. If young men are taught to think certain violations of women are acceptable, a lot of them are going to take it a step further.

    It is hard for me to accept that behavior like that could be taught in any way, just because I personally find it one of the most cruel and disgusting things someone can do to another person, but it's just so common that it seems unlikely that every rapist is a born sociopath who couldn't be helped.
    Wouldn't it be much easier and clearer to just word it the way you have, instead of all this rhetoric, as seen in the originally posted "article"?

  4. #94
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    not all man are rapists, just like not all women are harlots. people are complicated, and you can't divide them up and say one group (men) are all rapists, even if they've never raped anyone and another group (women) not rapist. Because some men would never rape anyone and some women have raped men. Life isn't that simply, I'm sorry it's not.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

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    I had a long nasty rant typed up, but then a telemarketer called me and my rage has been channeled in another direction. I offer you this much toned down version of my thoughts and feelings:

    What pisses me off about the originally cited article in post#1 is that my first impression of it is "holy fuck, which psycho came up with this nasty piece of work"? It's highly rhetorical, dramatic, and lacks logical flow to the arguments. Indeed, the catchphrase "Rape Culture" is loaded as hell. I get that a lot of so-called feminists think they're doing good work, that they're going on a crusade, that they're standing up for women, and they probably feel like big heroes and get tons of validation within their circle. But boy do the arguments get absolutely ridiculous. Pretty much anything (I exaggerate, obviously) can be branded as "encouraging rape" or "a part of rape culture". There are some pretty far fetched associations in there.

    Now, I actually believe that in many cases, a woman who is raped is treated unfairly. This unfair treatment ranges from not believing her, viciously attacking her character, and blaming her. Unfair treatment also includes making excuses for perpetrators, and minimizing the perpetrator's actions. That all makes me sick as hell. BUT. BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT. When you take a perfectly good argument or cause, and slap 50 million absolutely terrible arguments and rhetoric all over it, you blur the actual issues. An analogy I came up with is: You have a perfectly good cake. This cake is loaded with sugar, as most sweet dessert type foods are. But you proceed to pour several more cups of sugar over this cake, in a well intentioned attempt to make the cake even better. Well now you've ruined it. Now it's a piece of crap. There's still a great cake in there, but it's really buried.

  6. #96
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So most men are just rapists who haven't acted on their impulses yet.

    And comparing paying taxes to rape? Okay...
    As humans, we have the ability to choose not to act on our impulses or baser instincts, in the interests of some greater good, for ourselves or others or both. Some of us make more of an effort to do this than others.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #97
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    This is kind of what it feels like and why some women believe we live in a rape culture.

    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    This is kind of what it feels like and why some women believe we live in a rape culture.

    That's really too bad. I wouldn't want anything to deter wimmin from wearing short skirts and such. It would be interesting and possibly even useful for someone to come up with a realistic vision to decrease rape incidence.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilateral Entry View Post
    That's really too bad. I wouldn't want anything to deter wimmin from wearing short skirts and such. It would be interesting and possibly even useful for someone to come up with a realistic vision to decrease rape incidence.
    But just for a minute, can you imagine what it's like to hear stuff like that all the time from the time you entered puberty? Someone very close to me did not watch her drink closely enough when she thought she was among friends and she was raped. Another person close to me accepted a ride from someone she believed was a friend and she was brutally, brutally raped.

    I have two daughters. They are 19 and nearly 21. I don't know how to protect them. I sent my older daughter to orientation at her university because I thought she would be safe. She agreed to make out with a guy just to see what it was like. He didn't want to stop when she did. She had to physically push him off of her to get him to stop. She came home pretty shaken. And I'm left wondering, what if she was a smaller girl? What if it had been her younger sister, who is much smaller? So you can be certain my younger daughter is not going to the overnight orientation at the university.

    My younger daughter dated a guy for two weeks. Early on in the relationship she told him that it made her really uncomfortable to have someone's arm across her shoulders. He could not keep is arm off of her shoulders. He couldn't understand why she broke up with him. He kept trying to negotiate to stay in the relationship. He grabbed her in the hallway at school to try to get her to talk to him. I guess her reaction was finally angry enough that he got the point because after that he left her mostly alone. But her simple no was never enough to be listened to.

    Just last week, my younger daughter got up in the morning to check her facebook. What did she see? A nude pic of her friend's ex-gf. She had broken up with him and he was pissed so he put a photo she had given to him on facebook. Now, it is out there forever. If she wants to run for school board in twenty years, she might hesitate to do so because her kids might end up seeing that picture. The girl is a minor. The guy was not. This guy was my daughter's friend. She thought he was a decent person.

    If you non-rapist dudes who hate the very idea of rape have some ideas how to effectively stop this shit, I would be on your bandwagon with both feet. Honestly, we're just sick, sick, sick of this stuff. So tired of being afraid all the time. So tired of being called either prudes or whores. So tired of having friends and loved ones tell us about this happening to them and not knowing how to help them or what to say. We want it to stop. We're trying to stop it. Maybe not very well, but that is not on purpose. Believe me, we want effective more than we want whatever you're accusing us of. If we hurt your feelings, we're sorry. But, myself, I find it hard to get real broken up about it because as much as it sucks, your risk of being raped is so much smaller than that of my daughters and myself, my mom. You are like the cow or chicken telling the pig that everyone has to make a sacrifice in order for there to be breakfast. Your stakes are just lower.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    But just for a minute, can you imagine what it's like to hear stuff like that all the time from the time you entered puberty?
    If I was a hot chick, I'd be pretty paranoid about getting raped. I'm a paranoid person overall. Some definite OCD tendencies as an extension of that.

    Someone very close to me did not watch her drink closely enough when she thought she was among friends and she was raped.
    damn

    Another person close to me accepted a ride from someone she believed was a friend and she was brutally, brutally raped.
    dammnn.

    I have two daughters. They are 19 and nearly 21. I don't know how to protect them. I sent my older daughter to orientation at her university because I thought she would be safe. She agreed to make out with a guy just to see what it was like.
    nice
    He didn't want to stop when she did. She had to physically push him off of her to get him to stop.
    Oh.

    She came home pretty shaken. And I'm left wondering, what if she was a smaller girl? What if it had been her younger sister, who is much smaller? So you can be certain my younger daughter is not going to the overnight orientation at the university.
    Perhaps feed them growth hormones so they can be bigger and stronger? Sorry, bad timing for jokes.

    Just last week, my younger daughter got up in the morning to check her facebook. What did she see? A nude pic of her friend's ex-gf. She had broken up with him and he was pissed so he put a photo she had given to him on facebook. Now, it is out there forever.
    Porn sites are littered with break-up revenge photos and videos. Not that I would... ever..... look at those...ever...

    If she wants to run for school board in twenty years, she might hesitate to do so because her kids might end up seeing that picture. The girl is a minor. The guy was not.
    Technically it's child pornography.

    This guy was my daughter's friend. She thought he was a decent person.
    Most people are poor people readers.

    If you non-rapist dudes who hate the very idea of rape have some ideas how to effectively stop this shit, I would be on your bandwagon with both feet. Honestly, we're just sick, sick, sick of this stuff. So tired of being afraid all the time. So tired of being called either prudes or whores. So tired of having friends and loved ones tell us about this happening to them and not knowing how to help them or what to say. We want it to stop. We're trying to stop it. Maybe not very well, but that is not on purpose. Believe me, we want effective more than we want whatever you're accusing us of. If we hurt your feelings, we're sorry. But, myself, I find it hard to get real broken up about it because as much as it sucks, your risk of being raped is so much smaller than that of my daughters and myself, my mom. You are like the cow or chicken telling the pig that everyone has to make a sacrifice in order for there to be breakfast. Your stakes are just lower.
    Alright, alright, I feel you, girl. And I was starting to feel flattered by being called a "non-rapist dude", until you called me a cow chicken.

    First and foremost, get the fuck out of the midwest (your profile seems to indicate you live there). Your experiences do not reflect the experiences of women up in Canada. I know you have roots there, but if you can stomach a move, I swear you'll find FAR nicer places to live where the incidence rates of what you described are far lower. Perhaps PM/rep me with the exact state you live in.

    Second, I'll have to concede that the experiences you've described actually do justify the Rape Culture characterization. It had crossed my mind that in some parts of the States, things may be far worse than what I've seen in Canada. First and foremost, I'd like to tell you to not be a hero and just get the fuck out of there. But if you really do want to change things.... you're looking at an entire cultural change. I'm really not sure how that works, but I would start by looking at history. Widespread cultural change has been done before. Drunk driving used to be cool, but now it's taboo. Cigarette smoking used to be cool, now it's seen quite derisively. Drinking alcohol when pregnant is no longer acceptable either. Multiculturalism and acceptance of homosexuality is occurring in many places. If you look back a little further, huge changes such as ending segregation of black people, ending slavery, women's suffrage. I'd plow through history and see how cultural changes were done, and see what could be employed to your present problem.

    I don't think in this day and age, any artist would dare to put out a record on how wonderful drunk driving is. Perhaps one day artists would be shamed, not just by the older more intellectual crowds, but by the "young and hip" for putting up lyrics like "I slipped this in her drink. Now all you gotta do is nibble on this little bitch's earlobe..Yo, look at her bush.. does it got hair? Fuck this bitch right here on the spot bare Til she passes out and she forgot how she got there". Disturbing, yes, but someone could blast this and although they may be seen as obnoxious, they wouldn't be seen as gross little troll predator. What you want is all forms of rape to be seen as the equivalent of... say... child molestation.

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