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View Poll Results: Has the environmental movement become a religion?

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  • Yes

    13 37.14%
  • No

    16 45.71%
  • Other (explain)

    6 17.14%
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  1. #121
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Here you go, from wikipedia, the Philosophy section of Radical Environmentalism:

    The radical environmental movement aspires to what scholar Christopher Manes calls "a new kind of environmental activism: iconoclastic, uncompromising, discontented with traditional conservation policy, at time illegal ..." Radical environmentalism presupposes a need to reconsider Western ideas of religion and philosophy (including capitalism, patriarchy[1] and globalization)[2] sometimes through "resacralising" and reconnecting with nature.[1]

    The movement is typified by leaderless resistance organisations such as Earth First!, which subscribe to the idea of taking "direct action" in defense of "mother earth" including civil disobedience, ecotage and monkeywrenching.[1] Movements such as the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) and Earth Liberation Army (ELA) also take this form of action, although focus on economic sabotage and guerrilla warfare, rather than civil disobedience.[3] Radical environmentalists include notably earth liberationists, as well as; animal liberationists, bioregionalists, green anarchists, deep ecologists, ecopsychologists, ecofeminists, neo-Pagans, Wiccans, anti-globalisation and anti-capitalist protesters.[1]


    Radical environmentalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    That kind of stuff is bad for the world, not good.
    I really don't think the radical fringe of the movement has been able to cause any more damage than any radical fringe group. The Earth Liberation Army and their guerrilla warfare? The worst thing I've heard of "eco-terrorists" is letting animals free from private companies that hold them, but there is probably worse stuff they've done that I don't know about.

    You don't deny that the overwhelming majority of environmentalists mostly just want a better and cleaner environment right?

  2. #122
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I really don't think the radical fringe of the movement has been able to cause any more damage than any radical fringe group. The Earth Liberation Army and their guerrilla warfare? The worst thing I've heard of "eco-terrorists" is letting animals free from private companies that hold them, but there is probably worse stuff they've done that I don't know about.

    You don't deny that the overwhelming majority of environmentalists mostly just want a better and cleaner environment right?
    The Earth Liberation Army has been involved in multiple arsons in the United States and Canada. They are hateful people. Fortunately, most environmentalists are not like that.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #123
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Tree farmers plant more trees than tree huggers and no one has to tell an individual to pick up trash if he owns the property it's on.
    Maybe if they got paid like tree farmers did they'd be planting more. Mostly all the cleaning up of the environment they do is free.

    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    No one is opposed to planting trees or picking up trash. Do you pay attention to the news at all? Many environmentalists aren't content with just being the change they want to see in the world. The movement is largely a front for socialism, people who essentially see human beings as a scourge on the earth, and others who want to profit off green guilt.
    Global warming rage lets global hunger grow - Telegraph
    Death by Environmentalism
    ^here's an essay that outlines major disastrous consequences of environmentalist policies such as the France heat wave deaths, the deaths attributed to the CAFE standards, etc.
    I really think you're just talking about the radical fringe here. There are millions of "environmentalists" in the USA, I'd say most are just middle-class Democrats who care about the environment and really have no interest in socialism.

    I read that last article and it really seems like a reach to say that trying to reduce energy costs and raising energy taxes is a direct cause of the France heat wave deaths. Did that 25% really make it so all those people couldn't afford air conditioners or fans? As if without the energy tax those people would all be sitting in their house with brand new air conditioners? The US had lots of heat wave deaths, our energy tax is lower over here.


    p.s. glad to see you are still around somewhere, i thought you had disappeared from the internet.

  4. #124
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The Earth Liberation Army has been involved in multiple arsons in the United States and Canada. They are hateful people. Fortunately, most environmentalists are not like that.
    hmm, maybe they are just regular arsonists looking for an excuse?? But really, if environmentalism didn't exist, these same people would just find another cause to get radical about.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    You don't deny that the overwhelming majority of environmentalists mostly just want a better and cleaner environment right?
    Does that make environmentalists any different than the followers of any major religion? I don't think it does.

    What matters is actions, not intent. Actions have a substantive effect on society. Intent does not. My point is, from an outsider's perspective, whether or not they worship a deity is irrelevant. Whether or not they have mosques, temples, or churches is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that they're trying to impose their morality on others (and me), just like Christianity and Islam. They are, effectively, followers of just another religion.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Can you point out some of the horrible things they are doing? Seems like you aren't against the fact that they are environmentalists but that they might also be against free-market economics.
    I think it's more that, following the libertarian/liberal split being the main political split on these forums, that the various libertarian oriented people are arguing against something associated with liberals.

    Does that make environmentalists any different than the followers of any major religion? I don't think it does.

    What matters is actions, not intent. Actions have a substantive effect on society. Intent does not. My point is, from an outsider's perspective, whether or not they worship a deity is irrelevant. Whether or not they have mosques, temples, or churches is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that they're trying to impose their morality on others (and me), just like Christianity and Islam. They are, effectively, followers of just another religion.
    This, again, is something that every single political movement does, whether or not it is considered a religion otherwise. Neoconservatives, nationalists, etc. tend ot impose their morality of "our country is better" on other people, racists impose whatever their racial views are on people, anti-government types will have a morality viewpoint on who deserves things, and will impose that on people, various drug law, subsidy, etc. supporters will often have morality reasons for supporting what they do. (Environmentalism is more similar to the last two.)

  7. #127
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    This, again, is something that every single political movement does, whether or not it is considered a religion otherwise. Neoconservatives, nationalists, etc. tend ot impose their morality of "our country is better" on other people, racists impose whatever their racial views are on people, anti-government types will have a morality viewpoint on who deserves things, and will impose that on people, various drug law, subsidy, etc. supporters will often have morality reasons for supporting what they do. (Environmentalism is more similar to the last two.)
    I see a big difference between the tactics used by environmentalists and neo-conservatives. The tactics used by environmentalists mirror tactics used by religions very closely. I've never seen a neo-con proselytizing on a street corner.

  8. #128
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    I think it's more that, following the libertarian/liberal split being the main political split on these forums, that the various libertarian oriented people are arguing against something associated with liberals.
    I answered that question, and it had nothing to do with being "against something associated with liberals." That is a complete misrepresentation.


    This, again, is something that every single political movement does, whether or not it is considered a religion otherwise. Neoconservatives, nationalists, etc. tend ot impose their morality of "our country is better" on other people, racists impose whatever their racial views are on people, anti-government types will have a morality viewpoint on who deserves things, and will impose that on people, various drug law, subsidy, etc. supporters will often have morality reasons for supporting what they do. (Environmentalism is more similar to the last two.)
    I don't quite get what you are saying here, but I agree that the potential for religion-level zeal with different political beliefs is there.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #129
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Does that make environmentalists any different than the followers of any major religion? I don't think it does.

    What matters is actions, not intent. Actions have a substantive effect on society. Intent does not. My point is, from an outsider's perspective, whether or not they worship a deity is irrelevant. Whether or not they have mosques, temples, or churches is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that they're trying to impose their morality on others (and me), just like Christianity and Islam. They are, effectively, followers of just another religion.
    If you call it religion, then you also have to call every organized group in the world with a political/social goal of change a religion. This is by the loosest definition of a religion, and using it in this way renders it meaningless for all purposes of discussion.

    Calling environmentalism a religion is done by people simply wanting to marginalize environmentalism using semantics, which is obvious.

  10. #130
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    I think it's more that, following the libertarian/liberal split being the main political split on these forums, that the various libertarian oriented people are arguing against something associated with liberals.
    Most definitely.

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