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View Poll Results: Has the environmental movement become a religion?

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  • Yes

    13 37.14%
  • No

    16 45.71%
  • Other (explain)

    6 17.14%
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  1. #101
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Ummm.. Hasn't it been thoroughly recorded that we are harvesting resources faster than they grow, and creating pollution faster than it dissipates?

    If the answer is yes, then we have the problem of depletion/accumulation, and that's all that matters.
    No, it hasn't. Humankind adapts quickly when scarce resources become too difficult or expensive to extract/employ. You're completely oversimplifying the situation and being needlessly alarmist. And you have a poor grasp of human nature if you believe that the world population will continue to grow as rapidly as it has been the last century or so if (as is happening, definitely) the developing countries of the world are becoming richer. When populations become richer, their birth rates fall. Where are all these new people going to come from?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #102
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    It is absolutely retarded to say environmentalism is a religion. Religions deal with the supernatural, environmentalism doesn't.

    Environmentalism is no more religion-like than the Red Cross, the NRA, conservatism, liberalism..etc..is.

  3. #103
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    It is absolutely retarded to say environmentalism is a religion. Religions deal with the supernatural, environmentalism doesn't.

    Environmentalism is no more religion-like than the Red Cross, the NRA, conservatism, liberalism..etc..is.
    I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. You can't tell me you haven't met any Gaia environmentalists at drum circles or whatever. Even besides that, simply being dogmatic about it embues environmentalism with religious zeal. It's definitely not NECESSARILY a religion, but some people treat it as one--like just about any ideology.

    I voted no because I still think those wacky Gaia environmentalists and dogmatic recyclers are in the minority. They just happen to be obnoxiously loud so they're all you hear about.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #104
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think you're being deliberately obtuse here. You can't tell me you haven't met any Gaia environmentalists at drum circles or whatever. Even besides that, simply being dogmatic about it embues environmentalism with religious zeal. It's definitely not NECESSARILY a religion, but some people treat it as one--like just about any ideology.

    I voted no because I still think those wacky Gaia environmentalists and dogmatic recyclers are in the minority. They just happen to be obnoxiously loud so they're all you hear about.
    There are many definitions of "religion", such as simply someone has "strong devotion" towards something...so that really isn't saying much, people have strong devotion towards a lot of things.

    But the main things associated with the popular religions: superstition, Gods, explaining the origins of the Universe, afterlife/reincarnation, scripture.......environmentalism has nothing to do with any of this.

    Also, trust me I've been around many hippies and liberal types....the stereotypical totally anal environmentalist is very rare. Most "environmentalists" or people who care about the environment are usually laid back and don't really get into politics much. The real freaks do conglomerate at protests and such, but in the general population or even the hippy or liberal population...they are very spread out. All groups have freaks....but for some reason people are hell bent on marginalizing people strongly advocating environmentalism.

  5. #105
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    There are many definitions of "religion", such as simply someone has "strong devotion" towards something...so that really isn't saying much, people have strong devotion towards a lot of things.

    But the main things associated with the popular religions: superstition, Gods, explaining the origins of the Universe, afterlife/reincarnation, scripture.......environmentalism has nothing to do with any of this.

    Also, trust me I've been around many hippies and liberal types....the stereotypical totally anal environmentalist is very rare. Most "environmentalists" or people who care about the environment are usually laid back and don't really get into politics much. The real freaks do conglomerate at protests and such, but in the general population or even the hippy or liberal population...they are very spread out. All groups have freaks....but for some reason people are hell bent on marginalizing people strongly advocating environmentalism.
    Believe me, I know this, as I am one (both hippie, albeit self-loathing, and environmentalist). But I've met plenty of people with a supernatural personification of the Earth as goddess and all that kind of jazz to understand why environmentalism is seen by some as a religion of sorts. Also I've been berated for throwing out a paper cup at a potluck, which = dogmatic adherence to and preaching of one's principles. Like Christians, the loudmouths ruin it for the rest of us.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #106
    Member TrueHeart's Avatar
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    Default Off topic?

    What exactly is an "environmentalist"?

    I know, for instance, what a rancher or a farmer is; or a coal miner or a truck driver; or a small-business owner or a mid-level executive. I have a reasonable, though perhaps vague, idea of what they do for a living.

    But what exactly is an environmentalist? And why does it matter, really, what they think, or hope, or fear about the environment? Or why does it matter more what an environmentalist thinks, hopes, or fears about the environment that what a rancher, farmer, coal miner, truck driver, small-business owner, or mid-level executive thinks, hopes, or fears about the environment?

    P.S. Please excuse me if I have become a "cancer" on this thread. Thank you.
    "There can be no understanding between the hands and the head unless the heart acts as mediator." (Metropolis, 1927)

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  7. #107
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrueHeart View Post
    What exactly is an "environmentalist"?

    I know, for instance, what a rancher or a farmer is; or a coal miner or a truck driver; or a small-business owner or a mid-level executive. I have a reasonable, though perhaps vague, idea of what they do for a living.

    But what exactly is an environmentalist? And why does it matter, really, what they think, or hope, or fear about the environment? Or why does it matter more what an environmentalist thinks, hopes, or fears about the environment that what a rancher, farmer, coal miner, truck driver, small-business owner, or mid-level executive thinks, hopes, or fears about the environment?

    P.S. Please excuse me if I have become a "cancer" on this thread. Thank you.
    I like this definition, it's simply "any person who advocates or works to protect the air, water, animals, plants, and other natural resources from pollution or its effects."

    They are probably one of the most well-meaning groups of people...they have noble goals. They shouldn't be given a hard time, and let us remember what powers are working to chance your perception of them from positive to negative...oil companies (who were caught spreading anti-Al Gore propaganda, I think it was an ExXon offshoot.) and auto companies being the major ones.

  8. #108
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I like this definition, it's simply "any person who advocates or works to protect the air, water, animals, plants, and other natural resources from pollution or its effects."

    They are probably one of the most well-meaning groups of people...they have noble goals. They shouldn't be given a hard time, and let us remember what powers are working to chance your perception of them from positive to negative...oil companies (who were caught spreading anti-Al Gore propaganda, I think it was an ExXon offshoot.) and auto companies being the major ones.
    Al Gore is awful. And "well-meaning" is not a good excuse. Most people who do political harm believe that they are actually helping things. Have you ever heard of Karl Popper? "The attempt to create Heaven on Earth invariably creates Hell."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #109
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Al Gore is awful. And "well-meaning" is not a good excuse. Most people who do political harm believe that they are actually helping things. Have you ever heard of Karl Popper? "The attempt to create Heaven on Earth invariably creates Hell."
    What exactly are the majority of environmentalists doing wrong? Is it planting trees you hate? Picking up trash? Seems like they do 1000x more good than bad......I have yet to see anyone really point out the great damage they are doing.

  10. #110
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Al Gore is awful. And "well-meaning" is not a good excuse. Most people who do political harm believe that they are actually helping things. Have you ever heard of Karl Popper? "The attempt to create Heaven on Earth invariably creates Hell."
    This is a tangent, but I originally heard of Karl Popper when I joined a discussion group for a parenting style that was based on critical rationalism, but which ended up being a complete disaster of rampant child spoilage.

    http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/node/48
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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