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  1. #61
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    Society, at least our society, has already decided that our very citizenship will convey equal justice under the law. Based on this, local jurisdictions and private institutions do not get to single out one group or another for separate treatment without that compelling interest.
    May I assume that you'd oppose the progressive income tax then? That's certainly not equal treatment. I can think of a myriad of other privileges that are granted to certain groups and not others. That's the difference between a privilege and a right. Here's a recent example: Obama grants 1000 Obamacare waivers to his campaign donors, the various labor unions. That's not equal treatment. That's a special privilege granted to lefties.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #62
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    May I assume that you'd oppose the progressive income tax then? That's certainly not equal treatment. I can think of a myriad of other privileges that are granted to certain groups and not others. That's the difference between a privilege and a right. Here's a recent example: Obama grants 1000 Obamacare waivers to his campaign donors, the various labor unions. That's not equal treatment. That's a special privilege granted to lefties.
    Surely you can provide more than an inflammatory headline as evidence for favoritism. I googled your little headline and couldn't find anything substantial. It's an annoying habit of conservatives (not to single you out of course) that is a little hard for me to get past. Evidence, bro, we need evidence. You hear "waivers" and want to jump to all sorts of conclusions, but that's just not conducive to a good discussion.
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  3. #63
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    1. When Obama gives an ambassadorship to Caroline Kennedy for being a Kennedy, that's a privilege extended to his friends and campaign donors. It's not a right and everyone not named Kennedy is being discriminated against.

    2. New York and many other states have a death tax that only applies to rich people. New York's death tax is 16% with a $1,000,000 exemption. The federal death tax was 55% for estates over $5,000,000 (going by memory here) but that got repealed.

    3. "Proposition 30 provides for personal income tax increase over seven years for California residents with an annual income over US$250,000, to be implemented retroactively starting January 1, 2012 through the end of 2018." Being exempt from high taxes is also a privilege and not a right as lefty Californians demonstrated. Surely, you are not suggesting that this is fair treatment. By "fair", I mean being treated equally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven
    Surely you can provide more than an inflammatory headline as evidence for favoritism.
    4. I googled "Obamacare,waivers" and got a whole bunch of hits. Here's a good one:

    Yep: Unions get their exemption from ObamaCare’s reinsurance fee

    It's an annoying habit of conservatives (not to single you out of course) that is a little hard for me to get past.
    I'm more of a Tea Party libertarian than a conservative. More Rand Paul than Rick Santorum. If the argument by gay activists is the "fair and equal treatment" idea, then why don't I see any lefties clamoring for the flat tax? A flat tax is much fairer than a progressive income tax, no?
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  4. #64
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    May I assume that you'd oppose the progressive income tax then? That's certainly not equal treatment. I can think of a myriad of other privileges that are granted to certain groups and not others. That's the difference between a privilege and a right. Here's a recent example: Obama grants 1000 Obamacare waivers to his campaign donors, the various labor unions. That's not equal treatment. That's a special privilege granted to lefties.
    May I assume that you'd be in favor of paying everyone the same salary, then? Paying people differently for doing different sorts of work is certainly not equal treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    1. When Obama gives an ambassadorship to Caroline Kennedy for being a Kennedy, that's a privilege extended to his friends and campaign donors. It's not a right and everyone not named Kennedy is being discriminated against.
    You are assuming that Caroline Kennedy was appointed to this position purely for her family background. What is your evidence for this? From what I have seen, the link is at most indirect, in that the Kennedy family is indeed wealthy and well-connected, and thus able to give her the preparation and credentials necessary for an effective ambassador. We correct this by expanding education and career options for those who are not from wealthy and well-connected families.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    2. New York and many other states have a death tax that only applies to rich people. New York's death tax is 16% with a $1,000,000 exemption. The federal death tax was 55% for estates over $5,000,000 (going by memory here) but that got repealed.
    New York and other states also have very many stores whose merchandise is only affordable to rich people. Your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    3. "Proposition 30 provides for personal income tax increase over seven years for California residents with an annual income over US$250,000, to be implemented retroactively starting January 1, 2012 through the end of 2018." Being exempt from high taxes is also a privilege and not a right as lefty Californians demonstrated. Surely, you are not suggesting that this is fair treatment. By "fair", I mean being treated equally.
    Do most parents treat their children fairly - i.e. love and care for all of them, without favoritism? Then why is the infant given only milk/formula and rice cereal, while her 4-year old brother gets pizza and ice cream? The 4-year-old has to take a nap after lunch still, but his 7-year-old sister does not. Sounds unfair, by your standards, since it is not completely equal.
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  5. #65
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    May I assume that you'd be in favor of paying everyone the same salary, then? Paying people differently for doing different sorts of work is certainly not equal treatment.
    No, I thought that was your point. My position is that privileges (including marriage) is dicriminatory and it's perfectly acceptable. Rights, on the other hand, can't be arbitrarily doled out and must be given to everyone.

    You are assuming that Caroline Kennedy was appointed to this position purely for her family background. What is your evidence for this?
    She's also an early Obama supporter, but that's hardly a qualification for ambassador.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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