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  1. #41
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Rust in Peace.

  2. #42
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I seriously doubt the bible is coherent enough to have a determinate main idea.
    While I agree it isn't 100%.. I know as far as concentration on the new testament for Christians, Jesus' love and sacrifice for all is absolutely the main theme of things. How that meshes with the old testament, I don't know.. As far as I ever learned in school, it was sort of "This is the story of how the earth was created.. and how it was for a long while, and ways God dealt with sin in the past.. and how then Jesus came along and it all changed forever." So if you believe in the new testament, the whole basis for Christianity, then the story does make a lot of sense in the respect that how you dealt with things before (The Old testament) changed with the arrival of Jesus. No more floods, and reigns of fire, and sending bears and shit. Because Jesus came and was a total G and helped us out.

    You don't have to be pure evil to forfeit respect. He could have had some positive impact and not deserve my respect. At any rate, what does that have to do with him being dead? Or his kids for that matter? If his kids turn out okay (no idea if that can really happen) then I can respect them for who they are without having to respect that freshly minted corpse we're talking about.
    The thread is talking about Fred Phelps. The subject commanding respect here is the appropriateness of picketing his funeral. I stand to argue it is not appropriate to do that--that not acting out in anger like that shows some respect--it isn't TO the dying, but in showing respect for the dead, you give respect to the living (like his family who might be okay) because the dead don't care if you picket them or not. And I argue that showing respect for the dead is just something decent people do because of the implications it has towards the living surviving people surrounding that corpse. I'm not saying you have to go to a funeral to show respect, or that you automatically like people with death, or even that you cannot be honest.. But I am saying in this case, in being silent on the issue, not acting out in anger and using his death as an instrumental attempt to backlash on the living, keeping the opinions in personal realms and scopes of conversation.. It is showing respect, that probably the living appreciate.

    Maybe some people will hate them solely for their father's legacy. My position is that this is their best chance to be a better person that him. If they do, good on them, if they don't, they're going to be sucky people regardless of why they came out that way.
    Someone in this thread already expressed that they dislike anyone associated with him for the sheer fact that they were born from him and have his blood. I don't think it's that uncommon of a sentiment. While I think it's unfair to underestimate the influences of parents on the entirety of one's life, I do believe one does take responsibility for one's actions at some point in time. When that is appropriate is a gray area... and it is never too late. In this case, I think the kids probably turned out as good as can be expected considering all of the massive negativity they deal with on a daily basis since.. well.. birth.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Someone in this thread already expressed that they dislike anyone associated with him for the sheer fact that they were born from him and have his blood.
    Who?

  4. #44
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Who?
    Cheeky. "I think he was a horrible person and his family is rife with assholes. Thus, the dissident son becomes a casualty of legitimate revenge."

    Unless I'm taking the meaning totally wrong--you're talking about what you think about the family. The end of that is the quoted. That the whole family are a bunch of assholes, so the son is just gonna be a casualty in that shotgun blast of judgments (horrible people/assholes coming out of the family).

    If your grammar intended for the second sentence to be disconnected entirely with the "I think..." of the prior one, then, albeit that's a little confusing to read, you're still right that everyone's going to treat him like garbage out of mere association, even if you're not going to be one of those people.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  5. #45
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    Don't worry. He's in heaven now.

  6. #46
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ü™ View Post
    Don't worry. He's in heaven now.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #47
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    I looked it up because I didn't know this, and it seems his son and daughter gave conflicting accounts. I think both would have reason to either defend or accuse him (his daughter because she was still a member of the church and perhaps still loyal to him, and his son because he hated him) so I'm not sure what to believe.
    Yeah, I noticed this too and came here to share info:

    Fred Phelps was born in Mississippi in 1929. By all accounts his childhood was tragic: his father worked on the railroads during the Great Depression and his mother died of cancer when he was five, leaving his aunt to raise him. Despite this, Nate says he and his siblings were told that their father was a star pupil, a Golden Gloves boxer and an Eagle Scout, the highest rank attainable, albeit one some people remembered as having an “antagonistic bent”. Fred met Margie Simms, Nate’s mother, in 1952 while they were both attending the Arizona Bible Institute. Twelve years later he graduated with a law degree from a university in Kansas and fought various civil rights suits in the Sixties. According to local reports, he gained a reputation as a sharp, competent attorney “whose eloquent and fiery orations mesmerised juries”. Two decades later, he received awards from the Greater Kansas City Chapter of Blacks in Government and a local branch of the human rights group the NAACP.

    But Nate Phelps says the perception in some circles that his father was once this champion of civil rights, railing against discrimination, is laughable. “We would all call black people ‘DNs’ at home. It stood for Dumb N------ and was our private language,” he says. “We thought it was clever to call them that in front of them. He was deeply prejudiced, and he believed the Bible said they were cursed.”

    Nate says Fred Phelps saw an opportunity with the passing of the Civil Rights Act to cash in. “There was a lot of money, and a lot of opportunity,” he says. “And suddenly my father was the man to go to.” At the same time, Nate says, he and his siblings were being fed a distorted version of the Bible. “We were told we were the only people left on Earth; the only ones who were going to be saved.” Nate says his father became an itinerant preacher, attempting to save Mormons in Utah and Native Americans in the south west, and believing that he was never going to die.
    Considering what I've read about Nate and the other family members who have left, I'd have to give them more credibility in general [the sheer fact they left was because they had a more balanced perspective], and while I can't be sure of all the context of him using the DN slang and although Nate was younger at the time (and thus was looking at it from the perspective of a kid dealing with an abusive father) so some things might be out of whack, I don't think he'd be making things up wholesale. It's pretty clear he heard his dad say these things and this is what he took away from those incidents in terms of his dad's attitudes.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Sad story. I guess all heros die someday
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  9. #49
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Cheeky. "I think he was a horrible person and his family is rife with assholes. Thus, the dissident son becomes a casualty of legitimate revenge."

    Unless I'm taking the meaning totally wrong--you're talking about what you think about the family. The end of that is the quoted. That the whole family are a bunch of assholes, so the son is just gonna be a casualty in that shotgun blast of judgments (horrible people/assholes coming out of the family).

    If your grammar intended for the second sentence to be disconnected entirely with the "I think..." of the prior one, then, albeit that's a little confusing to read, you're still right that everyone's going to treat him like garbage out of mere association, even if you're not going to be one of those people.
    Not so much cheeky as bewildered how you interpret my words.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    His son literally did nothing wrong, and you just shrug your shoulders and say, "Sorry, but your dad's a dick and I don't care. Also, you're an asshole your whole life by association. I just believe that, without any evidence or support. Infact, ALL of you are assholes and terrible people that deserve to die." ..Which I'm pretty sure is how the WBC got to the conclusion that being gay is a catastrophic sin in the first place.
    Initially, I decided to let this pass uncommented because it seemed like a lame attempt to show that being judgmental always leads to idiotic conclusions. But since you had to grossly misrepresent what I said to make that point, it had no weight anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Someone in this thread already expressed that they dislike anyone associated with him for the sheer fact that they were born from him and have his blood.
    Here you take it even further. None of this can be derived from my words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think we (or at least I) also know enough about his family to decide whether they are sufficiently guilty of assholery to be subjected to a picketed funeral. I think he was a horrible person and his family is rife with assholes. Thus, the dissident son becomes a casualty of legitimate revenge.
    Apparently, I know more about them than you do. I watched documentaries about them. Fred was not the one picketing funerals. He sat in his house and held masses in their private church. His children, their spouses and their children did. These people, along with their patriarch, are 'sufficiently guilty of assholery to be subjected to a picketed funeral', because that is what they did to others. I said nothing about hate or death or evil by association. You made all of that up. The dissident son becomes a casualty presicely because he does not deserve to suffer a picketed funeral, but since he is one and the others are plenty, his feelings take a back seat, assuming that he cares at all.

  10. #50
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