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  1. #31
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    "None should attack a Brahamana; a
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    It would be humbling for mankind to let this man pass unfettered.

  2. #32
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    Kyu's initial post covers it.

    Aside from that:

    The celebrating crowd frustrated me, but I realized that I didn't have a rational argument for my reaction: that it was more about protecting my own value of not dancing on graves than it was about Phelps or the other people or death. Self-absorbed much? But...maybe such a snub is my own little version of retribution. "For all the displays you put on and toil for attention, you were still less important to me than I am."
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Alright, and I'm no bible-ologist, but I'm almost certain the Bible says several times that GOD will be in charge of all the judgments and punishments, and that people should treat everyone with kindness and respect despite being enemies of any sort. Meaning yeah, he can think that being homosexual goes against everything ever, but that doesn't translate into hate at all.
    The Bible says many things that are contradictory. yes, you can find the kind of stuff you describe; but you can also find stories and ideas where evil is purged from the midst of the believers; there has to be a winnowing process, etc.

    People tend to read the Bible as they are.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Alright, and I'm no bible-ologist, but I'm almost certain the Bible says several times that GOD will be in charge of all the judgments and punishments, and that people should treat everyone with kindness and respect despite being enemies of any sort. Meaning yeah, he can think that being homosexual goes against everything ever, but that doesn't translate into hate at all.

    Seeing as he could see the damage hatred made on blacks.. it makes no sense that he'd turn right around and start a campaign of hatred to reign down on those he deemed unworthy. Jesus didn't say, "Hey, all you gays get out of here so I can feed all the awesome people fish and bread." It still goes against every single one of Jesus' teachings. No, I very much-so doubt he was a good man at heart.. I don't know his motivations for fighting for black people, but there are several that have nothing to do with whether or not he agreed with racism in law. Like money and an open market and demand for supply.
    Well, religious scripture gets cherrypicked all the time, certain passages our ignored while others are highlighted and mutate into something else depending on the context they're brought up in. Even if Jesus didn't speak against gays, there are passages in the bible that speaks against gays and homosexual practice (Leviticus 18:22 being the most obvious example) and that is evidently one christian value that gets emphasized among certain christians even though it goes against Jesus preachings. What the bible REALLY says isn't really relevant, what I'm saying is that he had extremely strong morals and gays happened to fall under his category of "bad", while black's didn't.

    So when he saw blacks being mistreated, he might have or have not empathized with them. But since he was morally convinced homosexuals were evil he didn't see them as worthy of empathy. He didn't compare the suffering of gays to the suffering of black people because to him, gays were subhuman/evil/spawn of Satan/whatever. He might have defended blacks because that was a lucrative business for him, but seeing how extreme he was expressing his hate, I doubt he had anything against black people or he wouldn't even have considered taking on their cases. He and his family suffered much abuse and threats because of this, so either he was a really greedy motherfucker, or this was something he truly believed was the right thing to do. And because there's much evidence speaking for the strength of his conviction, and the monetary motivations behind defending blacks are merely speculation, I'm gonna guess that he actually did care for black people's civil rights.

    I'm not being an apologist for him or anything. I just think people who are monsters inside-and-out are extremely rare, and that it's always good to keep a nuanced perspective.

  5. #35
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    The Bible says everything. The way to form dogma is to choose a minority of it that you don't ignore.

    And I dislike the whole idea of referring to the Westboro Baptist Church as a real church. If you read up on the family history, you'll see that it was just the final stage of control from a deranged, abusive man who had many previous schemes for manipulating and terrorizing his family and those around him.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    And I dislike the whole idea of referring to the Westboro Baptist Church as a real church. If you read up on the family history, you'll see that it was just the final stage of control from a deranged, abusive man who had many previous schemes for manipulating and terrorizing his family and those around him.

    Exactly! That's why I felt compelled to link the story one of his sons wrote, about growing up in that environment in a previous post.

    People also mention his role in race-related legal issues. His sons mentioned often he would make little racist games and jokes about every "nigger" that sought legal aid from him.

    He was a parasite. Now he's dead.

    Perhaps someday his offspring will heal, but I very much doubt it.
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  7. #37
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    Well, religious scripture gets cherrypicked all the time, certain passages our ignored while others are highlighted and mutate into something else depending on the context they're brought up in. ...

    I'm not being an apologist for him or anything. I just think people who are monsters inside-and-out are extremely rare, and that it's always good to keep a nuanced perspective.
    To the first: I understand people cherry-pick. It happens. I do that with my entire religion--with almost no rhyme or reason, things just are, or are not, and sometimes are and then are not, then are again. It's human nature. I'm saying, the main idea of the Bible, the big picture, is far different than what he was cherry picking about. Someone with that much hatred in their hearts, I don't think they express kindness in a healthy way. Even if he was helping black people, I don't think it was genuine kindness radiating from him.

    To the second: It's why I say every dead person deserves some respect. Even if he was a TOTAL monster, his children certainly are not (even if they grew up following his footsteps), and even monstrous people who will burn in the hells they preach about do good things.. Evil and good are relative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    Perhaps someday his offspring will heal, but I very much doubt it.
    With people hating them solely for relating them entirely to their father's legacy whether they push away from it or not.. I very much doubt it. But I hope with his death they can further themselves from the link.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    People also mention his role in race-related legal issues. His sons mentioned often he would make little racist games and jokes about every "nigger" that sought legal aid from him.
    I looked it up because I didn't know this, and it seems his son and daughter gave conflicting accounts. I think both would have reason to either defend or accuse him (his daughter because she was still a member of the church and perhaps still loyal to him, and his son because he hated him) so I'm not sure what to believe.

  9. #39
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    To the first: I understand people cherry-pick. It happens. I do that with my entire religion--with almost no rhyme or reason, things just are, or are not, and sometimes are and then are not, then are again. It's human nature. I'm saying, the main idea of the Bible, the big picture, is far different than what he was cherry picking about. Someone with that much hatred in their hearts, I don't think they express kindness in a healthy way. Even if he was helping black people, I don't think it was genuine kindness radiating from him.
    I seriously doubt the bible is coherent enough to have a determinate main idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    To the second: It's why I say every dead person deserves some respect. Even if he was a TOTAL monster, his children certainly are not (even if they grew up following his footsteps), and even monstrous people who will burn in the hells they preach about do good things.. Evil and good are relative.
    You don't have to be pure evil to forfeit respect. He could have had some positive impact and not deserve my respect. At any rate, what does that have to do with him being dead? Or his kids for that matter? If his kids turn out okay (no idea if that can really happen) then I can respect them for who they are without having to respect that freshly minted corpse we're talking about.


    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    With people hating them solely for relating them entirely to their father's legacy whether they push away from it or not.. I very much doubt it. But I hope with his death they can further themselves from the link.
    Maybe some people will hate them solely for their father's legacy. My position is that this is their best chance to be a better person that him. If they do, good on them, if they don't, they're going to be sucky people regardless of why they came out that way.
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  10. #40
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsung View Post
    I looked it up because I didn't know this, and it seems his son and daughter gave conflicting accounts. I think both would have reason to either defend or accuse him (his daughter because she was still a member of the church and perhaps still loyal to him, and his son because he hated him) so I'm not sure what to believe.
    I'm sure there's bias on both sides, but honestly, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if his voluntarily excommunicated sons' accounts are more accurate. That, of course, could be a bias of my own, but I accept that possibility.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

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