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  • I am against the legalizaton of Marijuana

    3 9.68%
  • I am for the legalization of Marijuana

    28 90.32%
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  1. #11
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    i smoked before it was legal, i'll smoke after it is...it really doesn't affect me too much, it's legal status.

    though, it's not good for my mental health. i've gone crazy because of it, in the past.

  2. #12
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    Legalize it, for sure. As @Lexicon illustrated, there medicinal uses for it; I know people who use it for anxiety and for help sleeping. Yes, some can become addicted to it and have it take over their lives, but that can also happen with a number of legal substances including food and alcohol. Any recreational activity includes some degree of risk. Like @Tellenbach said it's far less dangerous than alcohol and there's no substantial reason to criminalize it. Plus it would save valuable police resources - both time and money - for dealing with real dangers to the public.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    All drugs should be legalized, not just pot.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #14
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    1. I hate it when crooked people capitalize on something as stupid as recreation. A looooot of drug money is channeled in one way or another to drug cartels, and it is one of the major reasons I'm against smoking pot currently. I dislike it personally, as I dislike the concept of inhaling smoke of any kind, but it is a very supposedly innocent thing that has a lot of insidious work put behind it.

    2. It is still a gateway drug. I do know people who have smoked pot and never done anything else... but I've known far more people who were willing to try pot that were also willing/did try other drugs as well soon afterwards. I mean, the concept seems simple enough.. if you're willing to try one illegal substance, chances are you're willing to try others. But science/social studies are contradictory on their analyses of whether it's a gateway drug or not.. my opinion is just that, and based on those few people I have met that have quit all drugs, and in retrospect realized that it was the crossing of the marijuana bridge that allowed them to be more relaxed about trying other drugs. And.. if you've ever heard me rant and rave about cheating in relationships.. anything that takes a definite line and blurs it beyond recognition.. I just don't want much to do with it.

    3. When it comes to alcohol, we have very, very accurate tests to see when you drank, how long ago, and how long you'll stay intoxicated. It leaves the system quite quickly, and there really isn't room for interpretation. I believe the saliva test on marijuana can do something similar, but the accuracy of how 'under the influence' you are and how recently it was used is far more vague. This makes it really scary when it comes to jobs where being in the right frame of mind is important. There are plenty of dudes that smoke pot, work fine, and never lapse in judgment. Just like there are plenty of alcoholics that go to work and function fine and you'd never tell they drank that morning. Doesn't mean I like the idea, nor do I want them in particular being ones that work on the things I use.

    4. I don't believe in the "it's no worse than alcohol!!!" bullshit at all. Everything outside of moderation is bad for you. Everyone abuses alcohol all to shit. That's why people like it at all. I know people that smoke very occasionally and have never abused marijuana--and those people are in the minority. Unlike alcohol, I couldn't even give you standards on what "is safe" to smoke without causing too many side effects. I don't believe it doesn't cause side effects either. All drugs have side effects. Every single one--from aspirin and tums to marijuana and alcohol. It irritates me when people campaign for it like it's this miracle worker--curing pains, ailments, making peaceful shit, and not being bad for the body. The people that smoke marijuana to get rid of pain--ask any of them if they'd rather smoke or be pain free, and I'll tell you what 100% of them will pick. (Hint: it isn't the pot.)

    .. That being said. Marijuana and peyote should both be legal and standardized and taxed just like alcohol and cigarettes, regardless of my current negativity towards the drug based on my personal experience. Absolutely. There ought to be government regulations that state all of the unbiased side effects and long term effects of marijuana, just like with cigarettes, there ought to be standards of testing and processing for people under the influence at work that have accidents or are trying to get hired, and there definitely ought to be less people giving so many fucks about other peoples' personal lives. The court rooms shouldn't have bullshit charges of pot coming into them just to make a few quick bucks off of citizens. My father shouldn't have to be interrogated about marijuana being in the car when a police officer pulls him over for a tail light being out simply because a drug bust happened 30 miles away and they're stopping everyone they can for any and every reason.
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  5. #15
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    All drugs should be legalized, not just pot.
    Theoretically, I shouldn't and don't care about what kind of drugs and addictions people fill their lives with.

    But I really, really see absolutely no benefit anyone would get from legal heroin. There are a lot, a LOT, of broken families and homes because of drugs like these when they're hard enough to get your hands on.. Having seen someone just completely broken from their addiction to meth, weeping openly in a street, screaming that they want their life back and their children and they want so much to stop.. I kind of feel it completely heartless to legalize drugs like that.

    I can see the argument for marijuana easily.. no one spent 12k$ a month on marijuana and destroyed everything they knew and loved on marijuana. It's not really that kind of drug.... and the lines start to blur when it comes to recreational drugs that have no medicinal properties.. that people seem to not stay on long at all.. most people just seem to try it and stop it soon afterwards when they realize they have to grow up a bit.. but something like meth, or heroin, where it's pretty much designed to just get you addicted, fuck you up, and do nothing good for you or those around you in the process? I don't understand at all.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    There ought to be government regulations that state all of the unbiased side effects and long term effects of marijuana
    The government has lost all credibility here, by telling lie after lie after lie after lie. Even in 2014, people in the DEA lie before Congress about the harm caused by marijuana.

    You think there's something special about marijuana that makes it a gateway drug? If there's any truth to that, it's this: The government has marijuana labeled as a schedule 1 drug, right next to heroin. Yet, pretty much everyone knows marijuana is not even close to as dangerous as heroin. So kids know they're told lies about marijuana. What other drugs have they been told lies about? There's only one way to find out for sure...
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #17
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    But I really, really see absolutely no benefit anyone would get from legal heroin.
    Quality control is one major benefit. Who knows what people put into the heroin you can get on the street. But that's not really why I support drug legalization. The reason I support legalization is because drug money is the primary source of income for organized crime. Drug cartels only exist because of the drug war. More than 50,000 people have been murdered by drug cartels in Mexico in the last several years due to a ramping up of Mexico's drug war (at the behest of the US, of course). What percentage of murders in the US are a result of the drug war? And that's before we even start talking about prison and how the US incarcerates more of its own citizens than any other nation on the planet.

    You're worried about addicts who choose to use drugs. I'm worried about people being murdered.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The government has lost all credibility here, by telling lie after lie after lie after lie. Even in 2014, people in the DEA lie before Congress about the harm caused by marijuana.
    I don't disagree with you there. But lying works both ways--and I know far far too many people who are 'educated' on drugs that just believe it does nothing harmful for you. Truly they believe it is a healing drug--which it can be used that way. Physiological ailments are not the only ailments that need healing. And I know people who have said with genuine certainty that marijuana helped them through very hard times in a positive way. But to pretend it lacks side effects, or long term effects, I don't buy it. I'm glad they finally started showing off all of the garbage in cigarettes, but I see lying on both ends of the spectrum there.

    You think there's something special about marijuana that makes it a gateway drug? If there's any truth to that, it's this: The government has marijuana labeled as a schedule 1 drug, right next to heroin. Yet, pretty much everyone knows marijuana is not even close to as dangerous as heroin. So kids know they're told lies about marijuana. What other drugs have they been told lies about? There's only one way to find out for sure...
    It isn't marijuana itself that is the gateway--it's the sort of people who decide to use it. It's part of the reasons I support it being legalized--it takes the stigma out of it, it's not 'cool' anymore, and people can gtfo its nuts all day long. I don't know how acceptable the drug classifications are, but I do know that people used to not take all sorts of things seriously that they find very serious now a days. I don't go around reading study after study.. my experience tells me marijuana does open the door to other drugs simply because it isn't 'so bad' for you. The statistics of people trying harder drugs that have smoked marijuana vs those who never have are there, and I feel they are viable enough. My theory is that this will decrease with the legalization of marijuana, and marijuana is one of the biggest and most widely used with the least side effects of the others, but I somehow doubt that those statistics will lessen significantly over time with legalization. I think it has a lot to do with the personalities of the people willing to try something illegal in the first place. When we take away this gateway drug (i.e. the gateway to illegal use of substances), these personalities will find another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Quality control is one major benefit. Who knows what people put into the heroin you can get on the street. But that's not really why I support drug legalization. The reason I support legalization is because drug money is the primary source of income for organized crime. Drug cartels only exist because of the drug war. More than 50,000 people have been murdered by drug cartels in Mexico in the last several years due to a ramping up of Mexico's drug war (at the behest of the US, of course). What percentage of murders in the US are a result of the drug war? And that's before we even start talking about prison and how the US incarcerates more of its own citizens than any other nation on the planet.

    You're worried about addicts who choose to use drugs. I'm worried about people being murdered.
    And with quality comes price. Likely if they can afford high grade quality heroin they aren't going to care. Most cannot. The US government won't give them alternative forms of payment--prostitution, 'errands' to run for drug dealers, money that's clearly been stolen from someone else. Drug lords and dealers don't care where the money comes from--the government will. The sort of standards that would have to be in place for heroin means only exposing the super rich to it. Which might not be bad for the economy, but the rest of the poor people trying to steal DVDs to pay for a hit will still turn to illegal vendors that have far easier access to the good shit they can water down and serve at a discount under the table.

    I don't believe legalizing hard drugs like meth and heroin will give the population a quality product. I don't think it will put that much of a dent in things. How many heroin addicts are paranoid? You think they won't go to dealers just for the sheer thought of the government tracking their purchases? We track how much cold medicine people buy. Granted, that's because it's illegal to buy large quantities of it, but the reputation the government has has been long rooted and firmly in place. That won't go away in a few generations. You're thinking too idealistic--like druggies will just open their arms and say "Oh, good, finally, a safe place and legal way to buy my drugs."

    Decriminalizing to the point where buyers are not punished with jail time for that alone, and dealers are harshly punished, I can see some leeway there. I don't think the murder rates will go down if more heroin is available in the US at a higher quality of product. I see facilities being heavily guarded, paying those guards, and putting just as much money into trying to maintain such a system as it is to fight against the cartels. I don't think it is economical either way you go--but at least you don't have a family that lost their head of household to a hard drug looking at it in the pharmacy as if it were something useful medically.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Quality control is one major benefit. Who knows what people put into the heroin you can get on the street. But that's not really why I support drug legalization. The reason I support legalization is because drug money is the primary source of income for organized crime. Drug cartels only exist because of the drug war. More than 50,000 people have been murdered by drug cartels in Mexico in the last several years due to a ramping up of Mexico's drug war (at the behest of the US, of course). What percentage of murders in the US are a result of the drug war? And that's before we even start talking about prison and how the US incarcerates more of its own citizens than any other nation on the planet.

    You're worried about addicts who choose to use drugs. I'm worried about people being murdered.
    Perfect post. Especially the last sentence.

    Could not agree more.

  10. #20
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Perfect post. Especially the last sentence.

    Could not agree more.
    I don't see how the legalization of drugs will destroy organized crime. I don't see heroin being less profitable for drug cartels.

    However. I can see MARIJUANA legalization being very, very damaging to drug cartels. 1. A LOT of people do it either way, legal or no. 2. It's not expensive to grow, make, and sell. 3. Many people are very likely to switch over to buying legal marijuana (as seen with the huge influx of 'spice' sales when that was legal for a short time) from founded, local sources.. 4. There is much less social stigma on this drug. Not so much with cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. There are active movements in support of the drug. I don't see the same social collaboration with things like cocaine which actually do have long-founded and still used medical principles. So one of the biggest drugs most widely used having a cheap, reliable government sanctioned source? Yeah, that has benefits. Massive benefits. For both citizens and for those warring with cartels. Illegal marijuana can still be busted and they can send their shitty Mexican bricks right into the slop bin.

    I can see many benefits that outweigh massively my own personal biases against the drug. So I support its legalization. I do NOT, however, feel that all drugs fall into this category. I think peyote and marijuana got tied up in a bad mess long ago and it's just been slowly accumulating to a head recently in deciphering fact from fiction.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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