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  1. #11
    Member JustAMind's Avatar
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    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    This is really important, and it's kind of surprising that it's not really being talked about that much. The ethnic history of Crimea is majority russian, and it stands to reason that there is a majority there that would like to be part of Russia. I wonder if any polling data was ever taken on this. If this it the case then it should be talked about between the two. Of course, it wouldn't likely go over well.
    There are two things here imo. Even after the ww2 Crimea was Russian, it was given to Ukraine as a gift from Chruschev, to celebrate state's anniversary. It was an empty gesture and nothing else at that time; Ukraine was part of USSR. Majority of people who lived there were and are Russian. They are clearly identify more with Russia than with ethnic Ukrainians from the West. Also Russia is wealthier and it's economy is rising. Russia is poor but Ukraine is piss poor and spiraling down so these people have zero economic incentive to stay with Ukraine. It is very likely they will vote to merge with Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Also, any bets for what country Russia decides to target next? So far we've had since 2008 Georgia and now Ukraine. (I bet on Kazakhstan)
    Georgia had it coming. They started shelling outposts of Ossetian milita that were in urban area killing a lot of civilians in the process.
    Their idiot president somehow thought they can take the autonomy by force and Russia won't react. I feel bad for Georgian people though.

    IMO current conflict is about the naval base which is a strategic port in the region. If Russia was not threatened to lose it, they would not go such drastic measures. That's how I see it.

  2. #12
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    As I passed the Russian Embassy in brilliant Autumn sunshine on my way to coffee in Manuka, I saw the brave Ukrainian flags fluttering on the trees in front of the Embassy.

    As I passed, a Russian beast emerged from the Embassy, and embolded under my gondolier's hat, I enquired about the fluttering flags. The beast looked cornered but muttered, Nyet.

  3. #13
    ndovjtjcaqidthi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    As I passed the Russian Embassy in brilliant Autumn sunshine on my way to coffee in Manuka, I saw the brave Ukrainian flags fluttering on the trees in front of the Embassy.

    As I passed, a Russian beast emerged from the Embassy, and embolded under my gondolier's hat, I enquired about the fluttering flags. The beast looked cornered but muttered, Nyet.
    Never trust a Russian.

  4. #14
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    Putin is ISTP. He is going to tap dance on everyones faces he doesn't give a fuck.

  5. #15
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Never trust a Russian.
    We have a stone fort, called Fort Denison, on Pinchgut Island, in the middle of Sydney Harbour, to protect us against the Russian Fleet. And it worked - the Russian Fleet never hove above the horizon.

  6. #16
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustAMind View Post
    There are two things here imo. Even after the ww2 Crimea was Russian, it was given to Ukraine as a gift from Chruschev, to celebrate state's anniversary. It was an empty gesture and nothing else at that time; Ukraine was part of USSR. Majority of people who lived there were and are Russian. They are clearly identify more with Russia than with ethnic Ukrainians from the West. Also Russia is wealthier and it's economy is rising. Russia is poor but Ukraine is piss poor and spiraling down so these people have zero economic incentive to stay with Ukraine. It is very likely they will vote to merge with Russia.

    Georgia had it coming. They started shelling outposts of Ossetian milita that were in urban area killing a lot of civilians in the process.
    Their idiot president somehow thought they can take the autonomy by force and Russia won't react. I feel bad for Georgian people though.

    IMO current conflict is about the naval base which is a strategic port in the region. If Russia was not threatened to lose it, they would not go such drastic measures. That's how I see it.
    You left out the part where Ukraine surrendered its nuclear weapons in return for its territorial integrity....which Russia agreed to.

    You could then say that the South Ossetia separatists regime had it coming for aligning themselves with Russian aggression against Georgia's citizens and territorial integrity, which included the ethnic cleansing of 200,0000 Georgians from Abkhazia (they were a large plurality, almost a an outright majority, of the population).

    Russia and Ukraine had a treaty allowing Russia to keep its military base in Crimea until 2042, and absolutely no one would have supported Ukraine in abrogating that detail of the treaty.....Russia is after bigger stakes than just that naval base (namely the subordination and control of Ukraine on the one hand, and the de-facto annexation of Crimea on the other). They took such drastic measures simply because they opportunistically believe they can get away with it (and they can, though they may find the economic price for doing so is beyond what they're willing to pay.....which they likely anticipated and is why they have left themselves room to retreat back to the previous status quo, now that they've made their point and punished the 'uppity' Ukraine).

  7. #17
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Vice has had some pretty amazing coverage.








  8. #18
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    The guy pictured above in this last video. That's a Serbian vet. Probably was involved in ethnic cleansing. Now he's doing traffic checks in Crimea. Just crazy.

  9. #19
    Member JustAMind's Avatar
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    This is from another POV, like I said I understand both sides. Russia cares for its interests as they should.

  10. #20
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    @Beorn What do you think the ideal American response would be?
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

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