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  1. #121
    Senior Member NK258's Avatar
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    Pro-lifers seriously scare me. It's so extreme and about someone they never have to deal with. It's like a choice they make so they feel like they're better people but they're not. It doesn't consider any of the actual parties involved at all. It makes no sense. Pro-life threads are always so strange to me. Like, how can someone possibly try to defend that position for pages and pages and pages? it makes no logical sense and is fairly immoral in my subjective opinion. always weird when I see this topic.
    6w7 Sx/Sp (621 or 612. Same diff :p).

  2. #122
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozones View Post
    " Pro-lifers do a lot of shit talk for the impressively small amount of actual help they provide".



    Were talking ideology and philosophy here. What are either of us doing to make a difference when it comes to this issue? Nothing were just sitting on our phones stating our beliefs and how we arrived at them.

    @skylights
    Personally I'm going into healthcare as a career, so hopefully in a few years I'll be in a position to be a professional advocate and facilitator of sex education, safe havens, and adoption. But I'm also not trying to dictate others' options. I just feel like if pro-lifers want to restrict others' possible courses of action, they need to put their time, energy, and money into the "allowable" options to make them realistic and healthy for the women they're seeking to impact. And abstinence education has been proven over and over to be ineffective, so I mean funding and supporting strategies that actually create positive change. In a perfect world, abortion wouldn't exist at all short of in dire medical emergencies, and I don't think it's bad to have its eradication as a goal. But I do think we need to work our way there, not just enforce it as an idealistic leap while thousands of women and children suffer the consequences of it being implemented without patience, awareness, and realism.

  3. #123
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK258
    It's so extreme and about someone they never have to deal with.
    According to the latest CNN/ORC International survey, this is the breakdown:

    1. 27% say abortion should be legal in all circumstances.
    2. 13% say abortion should be legal in most circumstances.
    3. 38% say abortion should be legal in a few circumstances.
    4. 20% say abortion should always be illegal.

    This means that roughly 40% favor abortions and 58% oppose abortions. That's hardly an extremist viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights
    And abstinence education has been proven over and over to be ineffective, so I mean funding and supporting strategies that actually create positive change.
    I think you are wrong about this one.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  4. #124
    Senior Member NK258's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    According to the latest CNN/ORC International survey, this is the breakdown:

    1. 27% say abortion should be legal in all circumstances.
    2. 13% say abortion should be legal in most circumstances.
    3. 38% say abortion should be legal in a few circumstances.
    4. 20% say abortion should always be illegal.

    This means that roughly 40% favor abortions and 58% oppose abortions. That's hardly an extremist viewpoint.

    Fair enough. Then how come I haven't been convinced yet. I think I'm a reasonable rational person. I just haven't the greater understanding how making abortion illegal in all circumstances is at all a logical let alone rational choice. I suppose I haven't heard the greatest of that sides arguments as of yet.
    6w7 Sx/Sp (621 or 612. Same diff :p).

  5. #125
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I think you are wrong about this one.
    After years of delay in its release, a federally supported evaluation of abstinence-only-until-marriage programs funded under the 1996 federal welfare reform law has proven the programs ineffective in changing teens’ sexual behavior. The report, released on April 13, 2007 and conducted by Mathematica Policy Research Inc. on behalf of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, found no evidence that abstinence-only-until-marriage programs increased rates of sexual abstinence. In addition, students in the abstinence-only-until-marriage programs had a similar number of sexual partners as their peers not in the programs, as well as a similar age of first sex.
    According to a 2009 review of randomized and semi-randomized controlled trials in “high-income” countries, as defined by the World Bank Organization, there is no evidence that abstinence-only education increases or decreases HIV risk.
    There is very little evidence suggesting otherwise, and what does exist is sparse, nonstandardized, and fraught with confounding variables.

    Personally I think abstinence ought to be part of sex education but not its entire domain.

  6. #126
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK258
    Then how come I haven't been convinced yet. I think I'm a reasonable rational person.
    Some view the fetus as merely a clump of cells, not deserving of any rights, while others view the fetus as an unborn baby. There is no correct or incorrect position. You view the other perspective as extreme because you are same distance from the center as the pro-lifers.

    You are here:|<------------------(the center)------------------->|Pro-lifers are here

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights
    There is very little evidence suggesting otherwise, and what does exist is sparse, nonstandardized, and fraught with confounding variables.
    I attempted to do some research earlier this morning, but I had to avoid all studies coming from government and educational orgs since they are biased. The one review study (posted by Heritage) claimed that 17 out of 22 studies showed a positive effect, but Heritage is a conservative org and potentially biased as well.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  7. #127
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    How is it, then, that so many pro-lifers assert a believe in free will?
    I don't understand the point of your question. I don't see how belief in free will is incompatible with a view that government should make reproductive decisions for women, and more than it is incompatble with any other government mandate such as a military draft, or even income taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    1. 27% say abortion should be legal in all circumstances.
    2. 13% say abortion should be legal in most circumstances.
    3. 38% say abortion should be legal in a few circumstances.
    4. 20% say abortion should always be illegal.

    This means that roughly 40% favor abortions and 58% oppose abortions. That's hardly an extremist viewpoint.
    It also means that only 20% favor outlawing abortion, while 80% feel it should be allowed in at least some cases. (As they say, there are lies, dirty lies, and statistics.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I attempted to do some research earlier this morning, but I had to avoid all studies coming from government and educational orgs since they are biased. The one review study (posted by Heritage) claimed that 17 out of 22 studies showed a positive effect, but Heritage is a conservative org and potentially biased as well.
    All studies are subject to possible bias. The solution isn't to limit your search to studies from one group with one particular bias, but rather to include as many as possible, so the biases average out, much as random error in an experiment.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #128
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    so..
    when i was younger and just messing around..
    i slept with a girl once and she got pregnant, yet i'm childless...
    she thought about adoption but it turns out i'm anti adoption...
    i would've raised the child by myself if i had to...with her ideally...
    she didn't want to raise the child, and she didn't want me raising the child by myself either...
    not that i did, but i'm not having a child of mine out there that i'm not taking care of..
    i had already made a mistake, i wasn't going to make another one by giving the world my responsibility.
    i feel horrible and it will never happen again.

    she was on birth control she said..and i believe her.

    but, condoms and/or pull out+bc+plan b when we were unsure still equaled baby somehow.

    i changed a lot after that. my whole world changed. it wasn't even my world anymore.
    and even though now it's back to normal...

    i'm just saying. use me as an example.
    don't be stupid, as careless. you don't want that, or this.
    it's not easy. still isn't. i get to live with myself now.
    you wouldn't know what that's like.

    and imagine her?
    and...you know...

    ultimately it was never my decision.
    i could only react.
    and i made it clear how i would in that hypothetical.
    so the girl chose to give me this one.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by NK258 View Post
    Pro-lifers seriously scare me. It's so extreme and about someone they never have to deal with. It's like a choice they make so they feel like they're better people but they're not. It doesn't consider any of the actual parties involved at all. It makes no sense. Pro-life threads are always so strange to me. Like, how can someone possibly try to defend that position for pages and pages and pages? it makes no logical sense and is fairly immoral in my subjective opinion. always weird when I see this topic.

    Boo!

    But yea like omg its just so damn weird for people to think that killing living things that have a chance at life is bad like what's up with that? I mean what's the big deal right? Who cares if it speaks to our society as a whole that we are OK with such disgusting immoral behavior. Crazy pro lifers I tell ya. How DARE they care about killing unborn babies. And like, that girl who was kidnapped and raped for 15 years, how dare anyone have an opinion on that guy who raped her, they dont KNOW either of them, its just so EXTREME to feel bad for her and illegalize raping. Its all about the pro deathers there just like the bees knees. Let's all get drunk and have wild sex and then if we get pregnant no biggie will just stick a hanger up that shit!

    *FACEPALM*

  10. #130
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    This thread is so trivial. Can't we fill the Politics section with something more interesting, like Sociology?

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