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  1. #101
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozones View Post
    liberal mentality right here. I give you an intelligent statement and you respond with stupidity
    It's not stupidity. It's a crude colloquialism that sums things up nicely, IMO. Did you read the article or watch the video I suggested? It's less than 15 minutes of your time, depending on how fast you read. If you can address those things with some credible evidence and/or intelligent argument, then I will listen to you.

    If not, well, I was fed Milton Freidman in high school. You aren't telling me stuff I haven't heard. I just don't consider it accurate in light of what has been happening in this country for the last thirty years or how our quality of life (for most Americans, not the very rich) compares to that in other developed countries.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  2. #102
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozones View Post
    Hm, , I see what your saying. I'm gonna have to think about this a bit. However I'm still advocating for responsibility, as that is key here. Someone in a previous post mentioned a girl who came from a terrible background who obviously wasn't taught personal responsibility and who wasn't able to make proper life decisions due to her circumstances. Maybe if situations like that can somehow be prevented, everyone wins. So to the people who are adults and look at child rearing as a burden, act responsibly. To those who are not in control of their situation due to dysfunctional upbringing, then that's something we need to deal with. How? I'm not sure. But there's a way to deal with all this so that everyone wins, and so that we can all go to sleep with a clear conscience. Idealistic, but plausible.
    The highlighted is key. I wonder if this girl was the product of an unwanted pregnancy herself; perhaps a good illustration of how far-reaching the consequences can be. I read a study not long ago about how crime rates dropped in the late 1980's and early 1990's in large cities like New York. After much searching for the cause, the only correlation turned out to be with legalization of abortion 16-18 years earlier. Fewer unwanted babies born into poverty and neglect, to grow up as petty criminals.

    We prevent abortion by preventing unwanted pregnancy. This is done by making birth control readily available to both men and women; by raising girls to have higher ambitions than having a baby, and less reliance on male approval; and by raising boys to have more respect for women, and their own potential responsibility as fathers. Of course, true gender equality and autonomy run afoul of the agenda of many reproductive choice opponents, which keeps unintended pregnancy from becoming a thing of the past.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #103
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    we should buy turkey basters get jizz from the sperm bank, insert sperm, become pregnant and force the children on to @Ozones and see if she changes her stance.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The highlighted is key. I wonder if this girl was the product of an unwanted pregnancy herself; perhaps a good illustration of how far-reaching the consequences can be. I read a study not long ago about how crime rates dropped in the late 1980's and early 1990's in large cities like New York. After much searching for the cause, the only correlation turned out to be with legalization of abortion 16-18 years earlier. Fewer unwanted babies born into poverty and neglect, to grow up as petty criminals.

    We prevent abortion by preventing unwanted pregnancy. This is done by making birth control readily available to both men and women; by raising girls to have higher ambitions than having a baby, and less reliance on male approval; and by raising boys to have more respect for women, and their own potential responsibility as fathers. Of course, true gender equality and autonomy run afoul of the agenda of many reproductive choice opponents, which keeps unintended pregnancy from becoming a thing of the past.
    Its not only about raising respect for women its about raising respect for life. Also im disappointed that a mod would resort to ad hominems (" I wonder if this girl was the product of an unwanted pregnancy herself" etc.) I thought they'd be above that. Despicable.

  5. #105
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozones View Post
    Its not only about raising respect for women its about raising respect for life. Also im disappointed that a mod would resort to ad hominems (" I wonder if this girl was the product of an unwanted pregnancy herself" etc.) I thought they'd be above that. Despicable.
    I'm pretty sure she was talking about the girl mentioned earlier who is a teenaged mother, not you.

    Plus I hope that's not an insult. I was born to a poor unwed young woman myself. I don't feel like an insult to others by existing, but you never can tell, I guess.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    It's not stupidity. It's a crude colloquialism that sums things up nicely, IMO. Did you read the article or watch the video I suggested? It's less than 15 minutes of your time, depending on how fast you read. If you can address those things with some credible evidence and/or intelligent argument, then I will listen to you.

    If not, well, I was fed Milton Freidman in high school. You aren't telling me stuff I haven't heard. I just don't consider it accurate in light of what has been happening in this country for the last thirty years or how our quality of life (for most Americans, not the very rich) compares to that in other developed countries.
    Yes i did watch the video. Along with a tested INTJ 1w9 and ISFJ 9w1.

    I was like:

    INTJ was like:

    ISFJ was like:

    When it was done we were all like:

    I see your point of view, cafe, I do. But I still stand by my beliefs. I also respect you for not using ad hominems like other users have. Its why your words actually give you credibility and why i bother reading your posts. Maybe one day this country can figure out a way where we can all get what we want. But for now I stand by my beliefs that everyone should exercise responsibility

    And thanks for the clarification. Sorry @Coriolis i misread in haste. But of course your not an insult by existing. Thats my whole point. Every life has so much value and potential that the concept of abortion just kills me (no pun intended)

  7. #107
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozones View Post
    Yes i did watch the video. Along with a tested INTJ 1w9 and ISFJ 9w1.

    I was like:

    And thanks for the clarification. Sorry @Coriolis i misread in haste.
    INTJ was like:

    ISFJ was like:

    When it was done we were all like:

    I see your point of view, cafe, I do. I still stand by my beliefs. I also respect you for not using ad hominems like other users have. Its why your words actually give you credibility and i bother reading your posts. Maybe one day this country can figure out a way where we can all get what we want. But for now I stand by my beliefs that everyone should exercise responsibility
    Should the Walton family and Walmart exercise responsibility? Or is it okay that taxpayers pay for the food and medical care of their employees because they do not pay a living wage, even though they can afford to do so?

    Edit: Do you know that my daughter's best friends know how to set bones because their father has weak bones due to past chemotherapy? Their mother works full time as a restaurant manger, but they cannot afford healthcare. Both parents were employed when their daughters were born. The family is a good family. They work hard. The daughters have good grades. They are being as responsible as they know how, but this is the kind of stuff they have to resort to.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #108
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    " Pro-lifers do a lot of shit talk for the impressively small amount of actual help they provide".



    Were talking ideology and philosophy here. What are either of us doing to make a difference when it comes to this issue? Nothing were just sitting on our phones stating our beliefs and how we arrived at them.

    @skylights

  9. #109
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    @cafe Do you shop at Walmart? Do you like their prices? Walmart provides aggressive prices on goods for individuals who cant afford to pay more. Think about that

  10. #110
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozones View Post
    @cafe Do you shop Walmart? Do you like their prices? Walmart provides aggressive prices on goods for individuals who cant afford to pay more. Think about that
    I don't shop there. I do shop at Sam's. Costco does the same thing as Sam's, is profitable and pays a living wage. Generally, the amount an increase in wages would drive up prices is very small. For example, one study indicates that if Walmart raised it's employee's wages to a minimum of $12, it would cost the average shopper $0.46/trip. I would pay more than that with a glad heart to improve those people's lives and those of their families.

    But you did not answer my question. Should taxpayers be responsible for supplementing Walmart's employees? Or should those employees and their children just go hungry and be sick.

    Also, is your problem with the video I shared with you that you believe it is inaccurate or is it just not something you care about because inequality does not negatively impact you or anyone you care about?

    Edit: Another article talking about the impact of higher wages on prices for items sold.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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