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  1. #41
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Girls, girls, you're both pretty ... let's move on.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #42
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Who needs it? If you have the right and freedom to believe and behave as you see fit (as long as you do not actively harm another while doing so), why do you need religious freedom? How are religious beliefs and acts different from other human beliefs and acts?

    I say, let us get rid of religious freedom. Let us have liberty instead!
    I found this to be quite a beautiful thought. The irony of this is if you did peel back the need for labeled freedom it would actually create additional freedom for the people but to those who would oppose such a thought, such an act would be perceived as curbing their freedom.

    /my vote as, wait for it, a "Christian"

  3. #43
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    I found this to be quite a beautiful thought. The irony of this is if you did peel back the need for labeled freedom it would actually create additional freedom for the people but to those who would oppose such a thought, such an act would be perceived as curbing their freedom.

    /my vote as, wait for it, a "Christian"
    Everything tastes better with irony, doesn't it?

  4. #44
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Historically... The world has changed. My thread takes place in the present.
    Yeah, when half my friends and I are in a gulag I'll remember you said this.

    History has this crazy habit of repeating itself, but some never learn.

  5. #45
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    It seems to me that if I wanted to impose my religious beliefs on everybody the best way to do that would be to get rid of religious liberty in order to suppress opposition and then just redefine liberty itself to fit my own personal beliefs.

    If you get rid of religious liberty the only institution with the right to tell us how to live is the state. And the state has pretty powerful means of persuasion at it's disposal.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Yeah, when half my friends and I are in a gulag I'll remember you said this.

    History has this crazy habit of repeating itself, but some never learn.
    There it is. Gulag. I was wondering how long it would be before a Christian said it.

    History repeating itself a myth that only seems reasonable if you look at history in the most superficial way possible. It's not surprising that Christians would confuse Stalinists with secularism/atheism/etc. They're all satanic from the conservative Christian perspective. Everything that is not Godly is satanic by definition.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    It seems to me that if I wanted to impose my religious beliefs on everybody the best way to do that would be to get rid of religious liberty in order to suppress opposition and then just redefine liberty itself to fit my own personal beliefs.

    If you get rid of religious liberty the only institution with the right to tell us how to live is the state. And the state has pretty powerful means of persuasion at it's disposal.
    And this post eloquently proves the realization I had when I understood what Nico was saying in his OP.

    If you cannot see how this concept would improve freedom, then I suggest letting go of the idea for a moment and holding (lolrony) past the point of fear into the wide open yonder of freedom.

    The concept of true liberty simply removes the special snowflake martyrdom that people naturally cling to in order to, I don't know, perhaps lessen the feeling of impotence in their lives.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    It seems to me that if I wanted to impose my religious beliefs on everybody the best way to do that would be to get rid of religious liberty in order to suppress opposition and then just redefine liberty itself to fit my own personal beliefs.

    If you get rid of religious liberty the only institution with the right to tell us how to live is the state. And the state has pretty powerful means of persuasion at it's disposal.
    There is just "liberty". There is no need to have the "religious" qualifier in front of it. What makes religion so special that it deserves special privileges beyond other beliefs? That religious qualifier is just a way for you to say your beliefs are more important than other peoples' beliefs.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Yeah, when half my friends and I are in a gulag I'll remember you said this.

    History has this crazy habit of repeating itself, but some never learn.
    Gulag? Why? Are you going to publicly pee on a picture of Putin in the streets of Moscow or something?

  10. #50
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    Business owners can turn down business for whatever reason. The law does not force businesses to take all comers.

    It may be simpler to just not offer service and not give a reason.

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