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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Quite so.

    And in the last 20 years more than 200 million Chinese alone have moved out of poverty to prosperity.

    And globalization is moving hundreds of millions more out of poverty to prosperity in India and Indonesia.

    And here we are in Oz, in the box seat, as hundreds of millions move out of poverty to prosperity around us, and enrich us in the process.

    To stop globalization would be an act of madness akin to the tragedy of the First World War.
    To play Devil's Advocate here, WWI was the result of Militarism, Alliances, Imperialism, and Nationalism.

    Nationalism can't and shouldn't be avoided. A group of people on the same chunk of land with the same history have the right to govern themselves. I know my country is crushing Nationalism around the world, but I'm not the president and it's not my fault.

    Alliances are to protect from attack from other nations or to allow for international trade.
    The First Gulf War was completely due to a stupid trade agreement with Kuwait the US never should've made.
    9/11 and the Second Gulf War were due to Saudi Osama's reaction to the uncouth US troops quartered in Saudi Arabia for the first Gulf War.

    In the beginning of the Imperialist Era, public opinion towards Imperialism was accumulated because of the "White Man's Burden."
    We now know this was just a facade, and the real motivations were 1) US paranoia over Europeans 2) Dinero. Mucho dinero. Conquest. Power. TRADE.

    Militarism? Merely an outgrowth of Imperialism at the time. It's not like countries were militarizing by building fences of anti-aircraft guns around their borders.

    Austria started WWI by annexing the Balkans.
    If they'd stayed put, there would've been no WWI. Or WWII for that matter.

    If the US had never made trade deals with some countries like Kuwait or outright invaded others for MONEY, we'd see a sizable reduction to the wars occurring.

    And an international war is impossible if countries never interact.

  2. #42
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Really? Much better? In my experience the hourly pay is normally either equal or slightly lower (unless you're self-employed), the main upside being that you can work more hours.

    In my opinion, the main reason why there's a problem in the recruitment process is that the incentives are still too low compared to the expected costs.
    There may be regional differences, but both the articles I read on these specific programs targeting women, and the people I know in skilled trades bear that out. A few have wives who are secretaries/office workers, and for roughly similar experience (8-12 years on the job), the wives earn significantly less, though sometimes get health benefits. The only wife who earns more is a nurse.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #43
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    WWI was the result of Militarism, Alliances, Imperialism, and Nationalism.
    WW I put an end to our first successful globalization. It took a global war to put an end to trade globalization. The first act of the enemy was to sink our merchant shipping, so cutting us off from global trade, and hence impoverishing us.

    And in my opinion it would take a global catastrophe to put an end to our present globalization.

    The electric telegraph underwrote our first globalization by giving us global communication, and the computer underwrites our second globalization by giving us, once again, global electric communication.

  4. #44
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    Maybe at some point 3d printing and similar technologies will allow us to download and replicate our own products in our own towns, eliminating the need for manufacturing jobs altogether. Outsourcing solved.

    Many jobs are under threat of robot takeover in the near future anyway (even service jobs that can't be outsourced), so outsourcing might eventually pale in comparison to the robot job killers. (source)
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    WW I put an end to our first successful globalization. It took a global war to put an end to trade globalization. The first act of the enemy was to sink our merchant shipping, so cutting us off from global trade, and hence impoverishing us.

    And in my opinion it would take a global catastrophe to put an end to our present globalization.

    The electric telegraph underwrote our first globalization by giving us global communication, and the computer underwrites our second globalization by giving us, once again, global electric communication.
    "Cutting us off" implies that trade ends quickly, not gradually.
    Had there been no economic interdependence in the first place, the collapse wouldn't have been so cataclysmic.

    If WWI was an "act of the enemy," and their intentions were to impoverish countries by globally isolating them, the sharp drop of the cut-off could never have been achieved had there been no globalization in the first place.

    Based on your logic, WWI, which was a bloody loss of human life, ended global trade. If WWI, which was bad, ended global trade, global trade must then be good.

    Hitler had chronic flatulence issues, therefore farting is anti-semitic and fascist, therefore anyone who farts needs to be hanged from a tree.

    You argue globalization ends poverty, yet you use WWI as your example.
    WWI was not poverty. WWI caused poverty in many nations. It caused poverty in yours by cutting off trade that happened to benefit you.
    In others, this was not the case.

    German poverty was caused by the unfair Treaty of Versailles and other European powers exploiting the carcass of the Second Reich.

    French poverty was caused by the incredible damage Germany dealt to France. The French countryside was obliterated.

    In US, we began to accumulate wealth by conquering the Western frontier.
    When the West was supersaturated, we huddled into cities and entered poverty.
    Industrialism and growing population worsened poverty.
    To avoid poverty after the closing of the West, America resorted to imperialism.

    Though poverty is harmful to one country and the individuals within, the alternative is Imperialism, which harms other countries.
    During the Imperialist Era, America began by attacking the islands and sacking their resources. The same went in the Western frontier.
    As society progressed, we needed a gimmick to justify our actions in the eyes of the public.
    We resorted to economic exploitation of countries, backed by a strong navy, rather than blatantly sacking countries.
    We invented the racist gimmick of the "White Man's Burden" to justify our economic conquest in the eyes of the public.

    Poverty is bad.
    Imperialism is morally wrong.
    To argue for globalism instead of poverty is to argue it's the right thing to steal your brother's sandwich. Your cells need food more than your brothers' do.
    It's pragmatism over morality.

    My country is doing this.
    I am ashamed of its leaders.

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