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  1. #51
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe
    Does it never occur to these kinds of people to question why largely atheist modern Europe has so many fewer deaths due to illness, especially of children, compared to comparatively religiously devout Europe of a few hundred years ago?
    No, that's not it. That has more to do with practices like water chlorination, better nutrition, and medicines like vaccines and antibiotics.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #52
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    No, that's not it. That has more to do with practices like water chlorination, better nutrition, and medicines like vaccines and antibiotics.
    Obviously.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #53
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    What about this one? "...You shall not stand aside while your fellow's blood is shed--I am the LORD." (Leviticus 19:16)

    You are basically quoting Lev. 19:19 "You shall love your fellow as yourself--I am the LORD." But the above also says not to stand idle while another person suffers. I don't think the two were meant to be exclusive, rather I think that they support each other.
    Nice quote. I studied it quite a while. It actually is in the same verse as: "You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people." And my version, the NKJV, states it like this: "...nor shall you take a stand against the life of your neighbor." And the references concordance give references to instances in the Bible where someone was wrongfully put to death or accused because of false witness(es).

    Furthermore, 'take a stand' seems to mean this:
    19:16 Stand against the blood - In judgment as a false accuser or false witness, for accusers and witnesses use to stand, whilst the judges sit in courts of judicature.

    However, I give it to you that you have made a good point here. I do not think the parents were malicious child abusers, though they could have been. If they were allowing their children to die because of evil, knowing they could be helped, but not wanting to help for twisted reasons, then God will find them guilty. It seems from what I have read however, that they sincerely were doing what they thought best for their children. Again, it comes down to society's law versus God's Law. Society won.

    People seem to be missing the point here. And that is that in the case of natural disasters, illness, disease, and accidents, GOD, not people, not doctors, not medicine, is the giver and taker of life.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  4. #54
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    When you become a parent, you instantly have a legal responsibility to seek care when your child is injured or sick. Legal responsibility. Religious belief plays zero role here. You can believe whatever you like and lay every ounce of personal responsibility at whatever higher power's feet you wish as an adult. You don't get to make this decision for another living, breathing, functioning outside of the womb human.
    I don't know about that law. Can you give me a link? If so, I've broken it dozens of times...
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  5. #55
    Senior Member OptoGypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    This is a tough issue.

    I don't believe the parents should have been sent to prison. They are not the ones who caused their child(ren) to die. Disease is. Perhaps God is. We cannot know the workings of God in these matters. Life is given, and life is taken away.

    The only Law in God's Word that would pertain to this is, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." If the parents would have refused treatment for themselves as well, then they are not breaking God's Law.

    They did, however, break man's law. I guess in their eyes, their belief in God usurped their belief in man. Now they are being punished by man. Perhaps the men who punished them unfairly will then be punished by God...


    We see LIFE as good and DEATH as bad. But if we all lived forever, the world could not sustain itself. When you believe more in God than the world, you understand that Death is just really the beginning of the story.
    God gave us a brain so we can use it's the parents fault for not using it and being ignorant, ignorance is what is making Religious people look stupid not the principle of God, their actions and your post screams ignorance

  6. #56
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptoGypsy View Post
    God gave us a brain so we can use it's the parents fault for not using it and being ignorant, ignorance is what is making Religious people look stupid not the principle of God, their actions and your post screams ignorance
    ^^^^^^^
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  7. #57
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptoGypsy View Post
    God gave us a brain so we can use it's the parents fault for not using it and being ignorant, ignorance is what is making Religious people look stupid not the principle of God, their actions and your post screams ignorance
    God understands that our brain and our heart can and will get us into trouble. That is why He gives His Law as a guidebook to use.

    As I said, there is nothing in the Law about disallowing God's will to take it's natural course. In fact there are instances in 'letting God's will be done,' as is stated in the Lord's Prayer.

    I guess that is likely hard for modern man to understand since man has been convincing himself he is 'in charge' for a long time now.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  8. #58
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    God understands that our brain and our heart can and will get us into trouble. That is why He gives His Law as a guidebook to use.

    As I said, there is nothing in the Law about disallowing God's will to take it's natural course. In fact there are instances in 'letting God's will be done,' as is stated in the Lord's Prayer.

    I guess that is likely hard for modern man to understand since man has been convincing himself he is 'in charge' for a long time now.
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    As I said, there is nothing in the Law about disallowing God's will to take it's natural course. In fact there are instances in 'letting God's will be done,' as is stated in the Lord's Prayer.

    I guess that is likely hard for modern man to understand since man has been convincing himself he is 'in charge' for a long time now.
    If that's the case, where do you draw the line? So giving a sick child given medicine is contravening God's will. Is throwing a life preserver to a drowning person contravening God's will? Is performing the Heimlich maneuver?
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  10. #60
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    @phobik

    Attachment 11279

    Pshaw. My guy doesn't care if I wipe.

    In fact, he'd prolly like it better if I didn't...
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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