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  1. #21
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Isn't there a law, both biblical and worldly, about being obligated to help someone in mortal danger?
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  2. #22
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    The case above is pretty straight forward. However, this one is not and yet deals with many of the same issues:

    One day Justina Pelletier was a seemingly healthy teenager performing jumps and spirals at a skating show and six weeks later, on Feb. 10, 2013, she was in the emergency room at Children's Hospital in Boston after a severe bout with the flu, refusing to eat and barely able to walk.

    Her parents, Lou and Linda Pelletier of West Hartford, Conn., say their daughter was diagnosed and being treated at Tufts Medical Center for mitochondrial disease, a rare genetic disorder with physical symptoms that can affect every part of the body. Justina's sister Jessica, 25, is also being treated for the disease.

    But three days later, a team of doctors at Boston Children's said her symptoms were psychosomatic, according to the family. The hospital then filed a complaint with the Massachusetts Department of Children and Families, as required by law, because they suspected the parents of child abuse for subjecting their daughter to invasive medical treatments and denying her mental health therapy.

    They laid out a treatment plan for Justina, which her parents refused to sign, and on Feb. 14, 2013, when they attempted to check their daughter out of Boston Children's to take her back to Tufts to resume medical treatment, the family said they were told by Boston Children's that they could not discharge Justina.

    "We never got anything in writing," said Lou Pelletier, a financial planner and father of four girls. "While all the security guards were showing up, we actually called 911 and said our daughter had been kidnapped by Boston Children's Hospital."

    Pelletier said three detectives spoke to the family, then they were brought into a room and the medical team told them the hospital had contacted the DCF and under a "51A," the section of Massachusetts law that mandates health officials and others to report suspected child abuse, and "they were taking custody of our daughter."

    "We didn't even get a chance to say goodbye," he told ABCNews.com.

    Pelletier said his family gave its statement to the state regarding allegations of child abuse in a legally mandated hearing within 72 hours of the state taking custody, but that the court process "took until April."

    For the last year, the 15-year-old has been in state custody under court-ordered treatment in a complex medical case that has pitted those involved in her care against her family and enraged advocates.

    ....
    Continued here:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/advocat...ry?id=22312907

  3. #23
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Isn't there a law, both biblical and worldly, about being obligated to help someone in mortal danger?
    In the Bible, I've already stated it. You are commanded to help your brethren, as if he were a family member. But, again, if you believe such that you wouldn't even treat yourself with medication, or a certain treatment, then that does not apply.

    If the MD had used a certain antibiotic, and it failed, and the child died before he could try other antibiotics; or if the child died anyway, would the MD then be sent to prison for the child dying?

    In the world, it would depend on each state's definition of 'child abuse.'

    EDIT: Science and atheistic doctors and institutionalized medicine (and education) are out of control. Makes sense, because we as we kick God out of our culture, other idols will be served, like man-made medicine and false medical doctrine.
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  4. #24
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Reminds me of a great quote from The West Wing:

    (scene: a priest talking to the President)

    You know, you remind me of the man that lived by the river. He heard a radio report that the river was going to rush up and flood the town. And that all the residents should evacuate their homes. But the man said, 'I'm religious. I pray. God loves me. God will save me.'

    The waters rose up. A guy in a row boat came along and he shouted, 'Hey, hey you! You in there. The town is flooding. Let me take you to safety.' But the man shouted back, 'I'm religious. I pray. God loves me. God will save me.'

    A helicopter was hovering overhead. And a guy with a megaphone shouted, 'Hey you, you down there. The town is flooding. Let me drop this ladder and I'll take you to safety.' But the man shouted back that he was religious, that he prayed, that God loved him and that God will take him to safety.

    Well... the man drowned. And standing at the gates of St. Peter, he demanded an audience with God. 'Lord,' he said, 'I'm a religious man, I pray. I thought you loved me. Why did this happen?'

    God said, 'I sent you a radio report, a helicopter, and a guy in a rowboat. What the hell are you doing here?'
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


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  5. #25
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AphroditeGoneAwry View Post
    In the Bible, I've already stated it. You are commanded to help your brethren, as if he were a family member. But, again, if you believe such that you wouldn't even treat yourself with medication, or a certain treatment, then that does not apply.

    If the MD had used a certain antibiotic, and it failed, and the child died before he could try other antibiotics; or if the child died anyway, would the MD then be sent to prison for the child dying?

    In the world, it would depend on each state's definition of 'child abuse.'
    I think the MD can and should be charged with malpractice, possibly negligence and even manslaughter if he failed to use the right antibiotics when empirical evidence has clearly shown that his preferred antibiotics doe not yield as reliable a result as the antibiotics one would normally use in this case (and which has proven to be empirically the right tool for the job). At the very least, he'd lose his license as his competence and judgement would be questioned and it would be irresponsible to allow him to practice medicine any further at the risk of endangering other people.

    Also, does that mean that if someone asks me to help them garden and I agree to do so, but my help consists of conjuring up little green leprechauns that will do the gardening for me as that is how I maintain my garden - I'm technically adhering to the christian law of helping out my brethren?

    I dunno. My personal bias says that anyone who willingly induces or refuses to alleviate pointless suffering when it is within their power to do so, needs to be sent back to empathy 101 class and maybe share in the experience. Death is one thing, tis a journey that come to us all, but pointless, chronic suffering (pain is only useful when it can be used as a warning system to address an issue, after all) is something that needs to be actively removed from this world, imho.
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  6. #26
    girl with a pretty smile Honor's Avatar
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    Oh, that poor child! This is one of those stories that just breaks me at my core.
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  7. #27
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Didn't he write a book at some point about the fallibility of memory and the spate of Satanic cult / child abuse accusations back in the 80's, especially in context with organized religion? Or was that someone else?
    I'm guessing that was someone else. Offit is a pediatrician and co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine. He's written a lot about vaccines and the anti-vaccine movement.
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  8. #28
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Thoughts on this?
    Faith is believing something we know isn't true.

    And faith healing is medicine which isn't true.

    While modern medicine, based on evidence and inductive reasoning, discovered in the European Enlightenment, is true.

  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    anyone who willingly induces or refuses to alleviate pointless suffering when it is within their power to do
    And this is precisely what Mother Teresa did.

  10. #30
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    I believe an adult should have the right to reject medical treatment of any sort; it gets tricky with minors. It's first amendment rights (free exercise of religion) vs child protection laws. If I were in charge, the state (a judge) would ask the child what he wants to do and the decision should be left to the child. If the child is unable to make that decision, then the state should take temporary custody of the child.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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