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  1. #51
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I hope this bills survives, just to see where things go from there.

  2. #52
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    I agree with the bill. Though I suspect this could create some odd legal loopholes in the business world and discriminating due to "religious institution" rules.

  3. #53
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Which seems to me a good reason to prioritize the First Amendment and protect the religious freedom of people one disagrees with rather than force them to choose between their conscience and their livelihood.
    I suppose I should consider myself lucky, then, not to be one of the people whose conscience demands I be hurtful to others.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #54
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Decision after decision, all with the same basic points, all harkening back to last summer's DOMA decision.


    Considering the same religious people ruined the livelihood and well-being of the minority status due to rampant discrimination for at least a century in this country and created an untenable living environment for them FAR beyond what the religious people will ever experience in return, you shouldn't be surprised if there's little sympathy going around.

    And "religious freedom" is a vague term that can be claimed by anyone.
    The DOMA decision was about federalism and equal protection under the law by the federal government, not about prioritizing individual rights or the matter of coercing individuals into directly participating in an activity that violates their conscience. Under my understanding of the proposed law (I haven't read it yet), there is no violation of equal protection between people claiming (and required to prove in court alongside the state's need to demonstrate a compelling state interests) a conscientious exemption.

    The sympathy one has or doesn't have for the parties involved shouldn't matter on issues pertaining to individual rights*, but I did offer an example with a conveniently sympathetic victim contrasted with a notable villain that you didn't address; would you have a Jewish wedding photographer be coerced into providing their creative input and active participation in a Nazi-themed wedding? Its the same issue with different victims.

    'Religious freedom' is a concept with centuries of philosophical specification and legal precedent behind it, and its no more vague than any other fundamental right.

    *I hope that the liberal Justices remember this, just as they remembered it in the free speech case involving the Westboro Baptist Church against the family of soilders killed in the defense of their country. It certainly seems like this is going to be legally settled in the high court sooner rather than later.

  5. #55
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Being a Nazi is a choice.
    Nazi Germany was a totalitarian State. No one got a choice.

  6. #56
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Glad I don't live in Kansas.
    *nods*

    Kansas also added Intelligent Design to their science classes in 2005 "...Critical Analysis of Evolution lesson plan which the Kansas State Board of Education eventually adopted over objections of the State Board Science Hearing Committee, and campaigning on behalf of conservative Republican candidates for the Board." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_evolution_hearings

    This gave us Pastafarianism and the FSM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster All theories should be equally considered right? (which was the crux of the logic behind adding ID to science classes)

    The next primary saw 4 out of the 6 board members being voted out (2007) and the first order of business for the newly elected state board of education was to overturn the decision in 2005.

    For all you non Americans reading this thread. This kinda stuff is very serious business in the U.S. Next time some American "activist" Atheist annoys you, keep in mind the conditions he deals with.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Kansas also added Intelligent Design to their science classes in 2005
    Also Islamic schools, even top Islamic schools in the West, teach Creationism.

  8. #58
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I suppose I should consider myself lucky, then, not to be one of the people whose conscience demands I be hurtful to others.
    I am glad to be humanist now, too. I was pretty nasty while in the grip of the cult. Why would an omnipotent being be so petty, anyway?

    My point is, we should always be on the side of kindness.
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    ATHEIST UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST HUMANIST
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  9. #59
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Also Islamic schools, even top Islamic schools in the West, teach Creationism.
    Ridiculous.
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Ridiculous.
    Not if you believe the Koran is the literal word of God.

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