User Tag List

First 123412 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 223

  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    It's pretty much impossible for me to take anything you say about the bible seriously after this.
    It's okay, Beorn, I stopped taking you seriously about the Bible shortly after you joined the forum. It's about time you returned the favor.

    The first ministry act Jesus did was confront a samaritan woman with her sexual sin so your statement is pretty absurd. Maybe Jesus would go to gay marriage ceremony, but if he did I don't think he would keep his opinions to himself.
    Apples and oranges. I think gay and straight people alike have never argued over whether adultery was wrong, and the Bible is far more clear on that matter. You're also bringing up a passage that was appended to the earliest scriptural record.


    Fun guy to have at a party! Pointing out everyone's sexual sin!

    Jesus spent time with prostitutes and taxmen because THEY WERE SINNERS not because they were being unfairly called sinners (though their treatment might have been hypocritical).
    Way to conveniently quote / misframe.

    1. The passage isn't about a party, it was a one-on-one private encounter with a Gentile.
    2. She specifically was asking him about salvation.
    3. He mentions adultery.

    The only party I remember Jesus rudely interrupting was all the religious folks bilking people in the temple out of their money to get blessings from God. (Hmmm. Might be a comparison to megachurches there.)

    When you are ready:

    1. Bring up some passages where Jesus criticized gay people for being in a homosexual union. (There's been some discussion that the servant that the soldier wanted Jesus to heal was part of such a liaison, but of course Jesus didn't bring up anything there. That's the only one I'm aware of.)

    2. Compare for me the amount of times Jesus chewed up religious judgment/hyporcrisy for the time period's equivalent of US evangelicalism/baptist church, versus the tax collectors he hung out with regularly, and then examine the severity of the language he used to criticize each.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Your framing of this is absurd. This isn't a new strategy. The Christians are on the defense here. It's the LGBT lobby that is pushing things. They don't want equality. They want acceptance and they won't stop until they get it.
    LOL.

    Honestly, they don't give a shit if you guys run up and give them great big hugs and invite them over for dinner and play football with them and make them your godparents -- that's what "acceptance" would be. You're not even required to say, "I believe gay marriage is fine."

    They just don't want to be treated as lower-class citizens. They want the same protection for their committed partners and for their children and property that het families enjoy. They don't want to be kicked out of restaurants because they happen to show up with their spouse and kids, just because someone assumes they are gay. They want fair housing and job protection. They want to go to the pharmacy and not be denied medicine because someone notices their spouse's name happens to seem same-sex.

    Meanwhile, you guys are fighting a turf war to protect the entitlements you've owned for decades and forgetting that, realistically, even the original disciples were being put to death and dying for the Gospel because it was the most important thing in their lives -- they weren't dying to impose laws on others or even to protect themselves, they were dying to talk about Jesus and salvation. You spend so much time fighting gay marriage that your entire witness is being shot to hell, where if you were following your holy books you'd be willing to suffer a bit if it gives people a clearer picture of Jesus. Instead, you're totally willing to give Jesus a bad name in order to protect your own turf and keep your lives as comfortable as they've always been.

    Yeah, it's scary when the world changes around you. This is no longer a Christian theocracy, it's a religious pluarism. Step back and get a sense of your priorities, won't you? Do you still think God has power to save in a world where gay marriage exists, or is gay marriage more important than inhospitality, which your allies have just leglislated? All you're doing is making God look even more irrelevant and callous.

    It's kind of scary that I can admit I'm no longer orthodox by your standards and be okay with that, but you guys have wandered far off the reservation and don't even know it. That freaks me out.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    figsfiggyfigs
    Guest

    Default

    How the fuck does this shit even happen/exist. I mean, i get the hate in the middle east/africa, but those black holes of death are full of uneducated dingbats.

  3. #13
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    How the fuck does this shit even happen/exist. I mean, i get the hate in the middle east/africa, but those black holes of death are full of uneducated dingbats.
    it's america. the country with the worse education rate in the developed world, any questions? and it's also in the bible belt which would also explain this as well. basically you get a country whose education system sucks, a place where majority of the population are fundemental christians and it's not that big of a leap. sad? yes very sad? but not suprising.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  4. #14
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Apples and oranges. I think gay and straight people alike have never argued over whether adultery was wrong, and the Bible is far more clear on that matter. You're also bringing up a passage that was appended to the earliest scriptural record.




    Way to conveniently quote / misframe.

    1. The passage isn't about a party, it was a one-on-one private encounter with a Gentile.
    2. She specifically was asking him about salvation.
    3. He mentions adultery.

    The only party I remember Jesus rudely interrupting was all the religious folks bilking people in the temple out of their money to get blessings from God. (Hmmm. Might be a comparison to megachurches there.)
    Arguing with you is a pain because you have an amazing knack for replying to an argument in a way that simultaneously is fundamentally unresponsive to the arguments made and not supportive of your own original argument at the same time.

    Your logic is flawed and frankly I don't know why you want to compare people with same-sex attraction to prostitutes and taxmen.

    The idea that a first century rabbi who is on record for supporting the sexual norms of the day would somehow support 21st century homosexual unions is on-face absurd and you have provided no evidence to support it.




    1. Bring up some passages where Jesus criticized gay people for being in a homosexual union. (There's been some discussion that the servant that the soldier wanted Jesus to heal was part of such a liaison, but of course Jesus didn't bring up anything there. That's the only one I'm aware of.)
    There was no such thing as homosexual union. You're being anachronistic and the burden is on you if you want to claim Jesus supports gay unions.


    2. Compare for me the amount of times Jesus chewed up religious judgment/hyporcrisy for the time period's equivalent of US evangelicalism/baptist church, versus the tax collectors he hung out with regularly, and then examine the severity of the language he used to criticize each.
    Yes, hypocrisy is bad. To the extent that hypocrisy exists in any church that's a bad thing. I hold everyone to the same sexual standards. I have no patience for nominal evangelicals who think nothing of their own sexual sins and spew nothing, but hateful language towards people with same-sex attraction.

    However, the fact that hypocrisy exist has nothing to do with sexual standards. Except for the fact that many hypocrites have been shamed into conceding ideologically to sexually libertine point of view instead of confronting their own sin.


    LOL.

    Honestly, they don't give a shit if you guys run up and give them great big hugs and invite them over for dinner and play football with them and make them your godparents -- that's what "acceptance" would be. You're not even required to say, "I believe gay marriage is fine."

    They just don't want to be treated as lower-class citizens.
    That's a terrible representation of what's happening.

    Canada and Europe have been pushing through hate speech laws that aim to suppress religious expression for some time. You know this.

    The desire to not "be treated as a second-class citizen" just happens to infringe on other people's rights.

    The LGBT lobby wants to send people to jail who express religious views different from their own.

    There's no comparison between having to avoid a Christian florist and having to find a gay-friendly florist (really?) with being put in jail because you expressed an unpopular belief.


    Meanwhile, you guys are fighting a turf war to protect the entitlements you've owned for decades
    I don't know what you're talking about. Everyone has the same entitlements when it comes to marriage.


    You spend so much time fighting gay marriage that your entire witness is being shot to hell, where if you were following your holy books you'd be willing to suffer a bit if it gives people a clearer picture of Jesus. Instead, you're totally willing to give Jesus a bad name in order to protect your own turf and keep your lives as comfortable as they've always been.
    You've got to be kidding me. Society is deteriorating to the point that people don't even recognize sin. If you can't recognize sin then you don't even need a savior.

    We are on the defense here. We didn't pick this fight. It came to us.


    Yeah, it's scary when the world changes around you. This is no longer a Christian theocracy,
    Wow. This never was a Christian theocracy. Massachusetts bay colony, maybe.

    it's a religious pluarism.
    This is what I'm trying to maintain. You're the one trying to force your religious beliefs on people.


    Step back and get a sense of your priorities, won't you? Do you still think God has power to save in a world where gay marriage exists,
    This is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand.

    or is gay marriage more important than inhospitality, which your allies have just leglislated?
    Being inhospitable is a right. I don't believe in legislating hospitality, but apparently you do. You want to force people to conform to your religious view.

    All you're doing is making God look even more irrelevant and callous.
    Hah! you give me far to much credibility. I'm pretty sure God can take care of his own reputation.

    It's kind of scary that I can admit I'm no longer orthodox by your standards and be okay with that, but you guys have wandered far off the reservation and don't even know it. That freaks me out.
    You can criticize my beliefs, but I believe that since orthodoxy has been around for a while it's you that have wondered off.

  5. #15
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    BIRD
    Enneagram
    631 sp
    Posts
    3,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Your framing of this is They don't want equality. They want acceptance and they won't stop until they get it.
    What's the difference? The United States is fairly heavily religious and at least one study indicates that atheists are roughly as trusted as rapists. I wouldn't call that tolerance, let alone equality. I really don't get what you're driving at here.
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

    "I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing."
    -Roger Waters

    ReadingRainbows: OMG GUYS
    ReadingRainbows: GUESS WHAT EXISTS FOR ME
    hel: fairies?
    Captain Curmudgeon: existential angst?


    Johari Nohari

    https://www.librarything.com/profile/wheelchairdoug

  6. #16
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captain curmudgeon View Post
    What's the difference? The United States is fairly heavily religious and at least one study indicates that atheists are roughly as trusted as rapists. I wouldn't call that tolerance, let alone equality. I really don't get what you're driving at here.
    The equality and tolerance part comes in where atheists are also just as free to trust the religious as they do rapists.

  7. #17
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,781

    Default

    so how are gays getting to go out to eat and shop places hurting teh christians? how is them getting married ruining the marriages of the rest of us? see everyone should be given the same rights under the law. doesn't matter who they are. I don't want to get married, but if the law was saying i couldn't i'd be pissed. Because you don't agree with someone's life style, you think it's ok to discriminate against them? fuck you. they did nothing wrong. This law doesn't protect the christians it harms the gays.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  8. #18
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,151

    Default

    Glad I don't live in Kansas.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


  9. #19
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    yupp
    Posts
    29,781

    Default

    you do realize marriage isn't about who someone gets married under anymore (ie god), but more of they have rights and legal protections that a non married couple does not. marriage these days has little if nothing to do with religion. it's the delusion that conservative Christians are hanging on to, that people want to get married in God's eyes.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #20
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Posts
    5,151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    you do realize marriage isn't about who someone gets married under anymore (ie god), but more of they have rights and legal protections that a non married couple does not. marriage these days has little if nothing to do with religion. it's the delusion that conservative Christians are hanging on to, that people want to get married in God's eyes.
    +1

    Marriage was never strictly religious in the first place anyway.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so


Similar Threads

  1. Yet another Islamist atrocity against religious freedom and free speech...
    By lowtech redneck in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 11-13-2010, 09:01 PM
  2. Reconciling Evolution to Religious Beliefs
    By Mort Belfry in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-30-2009, 11:41 PM
  3. As if I needed another forum to check every day...
    By Cogwheel in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-15-2008, 07:09 AM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-06-2008, 10:49 PM
  5. Add another INFP to the list...
    By Cindyrella in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 07-20-2007, 01:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO