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  1. #151
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Just forcing people to violate beliefs as important as sexual identity.
    I totally agree. I mean, when we forced all white Americans to treat blacks equally despite some believing in the Curse of Canaan, that was abhorrent.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #152
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Not to you maybe.
    Certainly not to me.

    You need to update your knowledge of history, too. Christianity being the foundation of western civilization is nothing but a myth propagated by the catholic church.

  3. #153
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Certainly not to me.

    You need to update your knowledge of history, too. Christianity being the foundation of western civilization is nothing but a myth propagated by the catholic church.
    Christianity has just been along for the ride, taking credit for things it had no hand in.

    I'm sure we'll eventually hear Christians claiming that God said the US should go to the moon and Jesus built the Saturn V rockets with his bare hands.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #154
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    And to clarify, it's not baking a cake for or taking a photograph of a gay person that the religious are objecting to, it's being forced to participate in a gay marriage (in whatever slight capacity) that they object to.

    Basically, all they want is to be exempted from lending services to a gay marriage ceremony.

    Legally, the burden on the homosexual couple to find another vendor to service their wedding is less onerous than forcing religious business to violate their beliefs.

    That's what it boils down to. What's a bigger imposition, finding another bakery, or being legally forced by government to violate your beliefs?

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Certainly not to me.

    You need to update your knowledge of history, too. Christianity being the foundation of western civilization is nothing but a myth propagated by the catholic church.
    Yea religion really didn't play a role at all after the fall of Rome.

  6. #156
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yea religion really didn't play a role at all after the fall of Rome.
    It played a role, but not a primary role.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It played a role, but not a primary role.
    What played the primary role then?

    Don't worry... I'll wait.

  8. #158
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Yea religion really didn't play a role at all after the fall of Rome.
    It played a very important role in and after the fall of the Roman Empire. In fact, the whole Middle Ages are a testament to its importance. Coincidentally, that was also when much of civilization was lost for centuries.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It played a very important role in and after the fall of the Roman Empire. In fact, the whole Middle Ages are a testament to its importance. Coincidentally, that was also when much of civilization was lost for centuries.
    Yep those religious people are just the worst.

  10. #160
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    What played the primary role then?

    Don't worry... I'll wait.
    What? As in what one thing? Different things played primary roles at different times. It's been around 1500 years since the fall of Rome, depending on when you define the fall.

    Economics is always more important than religion, though. Always. Even when a war is supposedly religious, it's really about economics.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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