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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Because I'm not blessed with your ability to ignore the bigger picture when it doesn't suit my argument. What you're saying is akin to catching Attila the Hun petting a dog and asserting he's a swell guy.
    Not at all. I don't consider socialists to be swell guys no matter how well-intentioned. The 20th century is filled to the brim with evidence that socialism doesn't work no matter how many times it is reinvented, no matter how many guises it wears. The socialist left has nothing to add to the conversation, just obfuscations that serve to excuse past failures.

    The bigger picture is: there is no bigger picture. There are only puppets and puppeteers with their individual agendas.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #52
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Not at all. I don't consider socialists to be swell guys no matter how well-intentioned.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...issingThePoint
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  3. #53
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74
    You are focusing only on the LAST SENTENCE of my reply, and then puffing right-wing smoke at the masses.
    I agree with the influence of special interests, but some men are able to withstand the pressures of corporate/labor interests and do what's right for the country. Reagan fired the air traffic controllers for striking illegally even though they supported him. Also, there is no context in which the presidential election is merely "a meaningless popularity contest".

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74
    Taking part of the final sentence of my reply completely out of context and interweaving it with high-level examples of economic prosperity during historical Presidential administrations does not in any way substantiate what proportion of the Commander in Chief's role is with regard to determining the success or failure of the U.S. economy.
    The President plays a huge role. I'd refer you to Art Laffer's book "The End of Prosperity". He was the architect behind Reaganomics. It's got charts and graphs that show sharp changes in economic trends after Reagan's tax cuts in 1982.

    You know damn well that corporate America, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, members of the House and Senate, and other influential members of the power elite (both at home and abroad) ALL have a say and a part in deciding how the U.S. economy will perform, at what rate, and for what duration.
    I actually think the inner circle of advisors, especially economic advisors is very small. In the case of Reagan, it was Art Laffer, Milton Friedman, and two other guys and Reagan pretty much did exactly what they recommended.

    I also want to point out that the reason why there are so many lobbyists and corporate interests is because there are way too many regulations and carve-outs/exceptions for certain businesses that do lobby. Microsoft didn't do much lobbying until Clinton went after it for bundling software and accusing it of creating a monopoly. So the solution to reducing special interests is to create a smaller government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74
    But don't worry - when things go wrong in the future, and they will, the fear of the potential fallout (as prophecized by the writers of the policies and laws that caused it all to happen) will be used to cause hysterical fear throughout the masses, and in the midst of that confusion the new generation of public policy abominations will be passed into law, and funded by you, our children, and several generations to come - all for the immediate benefit of a select few. And so all the bullshit that you seem to comfortable with will perpetuate, so you should be just fine watching it over and over again, and giving it your stamp of approval.
    You're being a bit vague as to what the "bullshit" is. You seem to think that corporations are the problem; I think that big government is more of the problem. Also, I hope you don't vote for someone just because they excite you, lol. Some of the best policies are indeed, boring.

    I wonder who you voted for in the last 5 elections?
    Just ask. I voted for Mittens, McCain, Badnarik, Browne, and Dole. If Calif were in play, I would have voted for Bush because the GOP is always the lesser of two evils.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  4. #54
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    2016 Election? I'd rather not think about it yet--and not encourage politicians to start running for it yet. Two and a half years of campaigning? No thanks.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    2016 Election? I'd rather not think about it yet--and not encourage politicians to start running for it yet. Two and a half years of campaigning? No thanks.
    Common sense informs us that politicians won't notice this thread, or even care about it if they do.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #56
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Common sense informs us that politicians won't notice this thread, or even care about it if they do.
    You're right, how silly of me.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Obamacare, as well as Romneycare in Massachusetts, attempt to provide for the reduction or elimination of social inequalities by making health care insurance available to all.
    You've got it backwards. Obamacare is a corporate sellout, fascism. We are now required, by law, to hand some of our money over to a certain group of corporations. The biggest beneficiaries here aren't the poor, it's the insurance corporations who now have a larger, captive consumer base.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #58
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You've got it backwards. Obamacare is a corporate sellout, fascism. We are now required, by law, to hand some of our money over to a certain group of corporations. The biggest beneficiaries here aren't the poor, it's the insurance corporations who now have a larger, captive consumer base.
    What are the names of these corporations?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #59
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    He lost in 2012, but I think he positioned himself well to devour the Republican lineup in 2016.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You've got it backwards. Obamacare is a corporate sellout, fascism. We are now required, by law, to hand some of our money over to a certain group of corporations. The biggest beneficiaries here aren't the poor, it's the insurance corporations who now have a larger, captive consumer base.
    What do you think the cost is to cover preexisting conditions, in this case? In terms of loss vs gain?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #60
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    What are the names of these corporations?
    You just love to ask silly questions that you could answer in 0.2 seconds using Google.

    Here's one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aetna

    Here's another one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Shield_of_California

    I could find a lot more, but I think it's pointless to list these because they're so easy to find using Google.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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