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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Some one get me the popcorn!

    That is a possible match up. I am not sure how well Paul would make it through the primaries, but considering the state of the GOP, pretty much anything is possible. The field for the democrats is a lot more narrow. Hillary Clinton stands a very good chance, and the vast majority of the Democratic base not only supports her, but likes her.

    Personally, I want to see Elizabeth Warren as the candidate (like, really really badly). She's stated that she will not be running this time though. I can hope for 2020. At least she'll be doing some more good in the senate. One could argue she's more useful there as well.
    Lmao. Rand paul. Dude is SO working for the libertarians under cover.

  2. #32
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Let's take a look into the crystal ball: It says Ted Cruz vs. Bill Maher! Too bad it's made by Foxconn. :P
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I said Romney and Obama are fascists, not socialists. Do you have reading comprehension issues? Or are you just trolling?
    And I said Romney and Obama are socialists. You got a problem with that?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  4. #34
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    And I said Romney and Obama are socialists. You got a problem with that?
    My impression is he does have a problem with that insofar as he thinks it is just an inaccurate thing to say.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    My impression is he does have a problem with that insofar as he thinks it is just an inaccurate thing to say.
    Do you think that can really be stood by as a factual statement?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  6. #36
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Do you think that can really be stood by as a factual statement?
    Yes. In reference to a couple different things.


    In my assessment of Lateralus's position, it could be demonstrated as a fact if he simply confirm that it is his opinion.

    Regarding socialism, one does have to pick their definition of socialism out of a few choices, but once one does, we can make a comparison between that definition and the positions of both Obama and Romney. Personally, not by any of the definitions I can think of would I really call either of them socialist, in absolute terms or in relation to the political norm.

    That brings us to a funny point in this conversation, however, as I seem to recall that you don't like to explain what your definition of socialism actually is. So if your definition of a socialist is a man who wears suits in public, I suppose they are both socialists, but it would be worth noting that such a definition is essentially unique to you an extremely semantically different from all frequently used or academically accepted definitions.
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  7. #37
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    Is Hispanic a race? Because then I'll predict 'Hispanic' for the 2016 US Presidential Race. Or Asian, that would be fun too.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes. In reference to a couple different things.


    In my assessment of Lateralus's position, it could be demonstrated as a fact if he simply confirm that it is his opinion.

    Regarding socialism, one does have to pick their definition of socialism out of a few choices, but once one does, we can make a comparison between that definition and the positions of both Obama and Romney. Personally, not by any of the definitions I can think of would I really call either of them socialist, in absolute terms or in relation to the political norm.

    That brings us to a funny point in this conversation, however, as I seem to recall that you don't like to explain what your definition of socialism actually is. So if your definition of a socialist is a man who wears suits in public, I suppose they are both socialists, but it would be worth noting that such a definition is essentially unique to you an extremely semantically different from all frequently used or academically accepted definitions.
    As I said in the thread you're apparently referring to, I believe MLK, Jr's definition of "socialism" as the redistribution of wealth - not from the public to the police department via taxation, as one poster claimed, but from one class to another in a given society.

    This is from the Wikipedia article on Socialist economics:


    Nationalization of key industries, such as mining, oil, steel, energy and transportation. A common model is for a sector to be taken over by the state and then one or more publicly owned corporations set up for its day-to-day running. Advantages of nationalization include: the ability of the state to direct investment in key industries, the distribution of state profits from nationalized industries for the overall national good, the ability to direct producers to social rather than market goals, greater control of the industries by and for the workers, and the benefits and burdens of publicly funded research and development are extended to the wider populace.
    Redistribution of wealth, through both tax and spending policies that aim to reduce economic inequalities. Social democracies typically employ various forms of progressive taxation regarding wage and business income, wealth, inheritance, capital gains and property. On the spending side, a set of social policies typically provides free access to public services such as education, health care and child care, while subsidized access to housing, food, pharmaceutical goods, water supply, waste management and electricity is also common.
    Social security schemes where workers contribute to a mandatory public insurance program. The insurance typically include monetary provisions for retirement pensions and survivor benefits, permanent and temporary disabilities, unemployment and parental leave. Unlike private insurance, governmental schemes are based on public statutes and not contracts, so that contributions and benefits may change in time and are based on solidarity among participants. Its funding is done on an ongoing basis, without direct relationship with future liabilities.
    Minimum wages, employment protection and trade union recognition rights for the benefit of workers. The objectives of these policies are to guarantee living wages and help produce full employment. There are a number of different models of trade union protection which evolved, but they all guarantee the right of workers to form unions, negotiate benefits and participate in strikes. Germany, for instance, appointed union representatives at high levels in all corporations and had much less industrial strife than the UK, whose laws encouraged strikes rather than negotiation.
    National planning for industrial development.
    Demand management in a Keynesian fashion to help ensure economic growth and employment.

    Obamacare, as well as Romneycare in Massachusetts, attempt to provide for the reduction or elimination of social inequalities by making health care insurance available to all.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  9. #39

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    Calling Romney and Obama socialists because of their respective health care plans is true in such a narrow and loosely defined way that the descriptor "socialist" becomes meaningless. An overall examination of Romney's policies shows that if anything, he is in favor of redistributing wealth to increase social inequality. Obama, while not as far away from socialism as Romney, can't be said to be any more than centrist on the matter. The USA has an astonishing inequality of wealth that is only increasing as time goes on. If these guys are socialists, they're really, really bad at it.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Calling Romney and Obama socialists because of their respective health care plans is true in such a narrow and loosely defined way that the descriptor "socialist" becomes meaningless. An overall examination of Romney's policies shows that if anything, he is in favor of redistributing wealth to increase social inequality. Obama, while not as far away from socialism as Romney, can't be said to be any more than centrist on the matter. The USA has an astonishing inequality of wealth that is only increasing as time goes on. If these guys are socialists, they're really, really bad at it.
    'Socialized health insurance' seems pretty definite to me. Why doesn't it to you?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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