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  1. #71
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Yep. It's a response to a larger, nebulous, institutional racism that IS a somewhat natural response--that isn't okay. And the racism that my father feels because my mother was raped and nearly killed by a black man is also a somewhat natural response--that isn't okay. The conversations that I would have with my father (who is aware of his prejudice and very deliberate about not acting on it, incidentally) would be more about responding to people as individuals, and my conversation with a racist minority would be more about struggling against the unfair system and not against individuals.

    What I thought of, though, when you said "good old-fashioned racism" was definitely more along the lines of racism that is taught (which certainly can occur among minorities as well) rather than racism that occurs as a response to an injustice (be it hegemonic or violent). It's probably the case that most racists (regardless of their group) have an element of this. It's just that, in addition to being taught to hate, racist minorities are often genuinely up against a system of pervasive small inequalities (and some large). It doesn't make it OKAY. It is not EXCUSABLE. But it may be different and certainly requires a different response. But that different response doesn't need to be seen as a less severe one.
    This makes sense, but I am not sure that racist members of minorities really feel that way. They might, but they may not even feel disenfranchised at all. They may just be very ignorant. Same with a lot of the majority/white.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #72
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    Or I'm totally missing the point, or this thread lacks some definitions.



    All humans belong to the Homo sapiens species and the Homo sapiens sapiens subspecies, there's no other known subspecies of Homo sapiens today.
    We can't deny there exist population groups which members have different phenotype in several characteristics (pigmentation of skin, hair or eyes, blood type), but, as you said, the genetic diversion in this case is product of adaptation.



    I'm not sure I get you here. You mean it's natural for an African American to vote Obama for the single reason that he's African American, while he may not even agree with his politics? I'd say, in the best of the cases, this would be a poor criterion. The same one that would say it's not natural for a non-African American to vote Obama.

    If you mean, however, that an African American will probably feel more affinity for and African American candidate in a country where African Americans are a minority and the majority won't care too much for minorities interests, then I agree with you. But, for an African American to vote Obama only because he's of the same "race" and for no other reason at all, then I'd say this mindset is rather racist.
    I am not jumping to a conclusion.
    I am being honest.

    In this thread it was said an African American person who votes for Obama is a racist.

    The reply is in the context of the question.
    Do not look at the words in the question.
    I replied to the implication.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I am not jumping to a conclusion.
    I am being honest.

    In this thread it was said an African American person who votes for Obama is a racist.

    The reply is in the context of the question.
    Do not look at the words in the question.
    I replied to the implication.
    Strawman
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #74
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    sorry i didn't read this thread carefully, but huh?

    i mean, haven't everyone voted for someone not of their race at least once?

    i mean given the composition of the us, lol

    asians have to vote for someone not asian like 99% of the time

    mexicans vote for someone not mexican like 99% of the time...

    blacks vote for someone not black like 90% of the time...

    ---- so what if barack wins?

  5. #75
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Strawman
    A sound definition.
    I read a book written by Catherine Arley in 1964. It was called The Woman of Straw.
    They also made a film of the book.
    Gina Lollobrigida was the woman of straw.
    Ralph Richardson was the man of straw.

    Good entertainment.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    I am not jumping to a conclusion.
    I am being honest.

    In this thread it was said an African American person who votes for Obama is a racist.

    The reply is in the context of the question.
    Do not look at the words in the question.
    I replied to the implication.
    Fair enough, I haven't read the original thread so no idea on the context.

  7. #77
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    Fair enough, I haven't read the original thread so no idea on the context.
    It actually was never said that "An African-American who votes for Obama is a racist."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It actually was never said that "An African-American who votes for Obama is a racist."
    I guess the conversation was initiated by wildcat's answer in your post I saw quoted in the OP?

  9. #79
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    I guess the conversation was initiated by wildcat's answer in your post I saw quoted in the OP?
    This thread was, yes. It was split because I linked an article by a Jewish-American female writer who basically said, "I am voting for Obama, because black people have it so tough" and I declared that to be racist reasoning.

    What I did say was that an African-American who votes for Obama ONLY because he is part-African American is using racist reasoning. The same as a white person who votes for Clinton or McCain or whomever ONLY because they are white.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #80
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    This thread was, yes. It was split because I linked an article by a Jewish-American female writer who basically said, "I am voting for Obama, because black people have it so tough" and I declared that to be racist reasoning.

    What I did say was that an African-American who votes for Obama ONLY because he is part-African American is using racist reasoning. The same as a white person who votes for Clinton or McCain or whomever ONLY because they are white.
    That Jewish American female writer is in the right. She speaks the truth. She is no way a racist.
    Empathy and pity are not racism. This was my point.

    I should vote Obama for empathy. Not for empathy for Obama, but for empathy for the ethnic and cultural minorities. Unfortunately I am not an American citizen.

    Would you call me a racist? I hope not.
    Besides, such an act is forbidden in the Bible.

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