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  1. #151
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I know, I was joking about the S part. You said I missed the point. Can you make it a little finer? I don't know how else to respond. I must not be getting something.
    We have to accept what we're given, past and present, in order to work towards the future. Society is set up in a certain way- you may dislike it- you may consider it antiquated, but you have to work with it to really understand things and get things done. Things are the way they are at present for a reason- that reason is the past. To disregard the past is to be blind to the present.

    The blind man doesn't see the elephant for what it is.

    Racism is a form of ignoring the WHY and focusing on the *IS* Not looking for explanations as for differences in people and cultures, but just looking AT the differences. Ignoring the WHY is the basis of racism.
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #152
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    We have to accept what we're given, past and present, in order to work towards the future. Society is set up in a certain way- you may dislike it- you may consider it antiquated, but you have to work with it to really understand things and get things done. Things are the way they are at present for a reason- that reason is the past. To disregard the past is to be blind to the present.
    I don't feel that the past is the sole reason for the way things are today. We have FAR more agency in what we do in the here and now than you seem to be suggesting.

    The blind man doesn't see the elephant for what it is.
    Perhaps not, but he can know on an intellectual level that it's an elephant and not a zebra.

    Racism is a form of ignoring the WHY and focusing on the *IS* Not looking for explanations as for differences in people and cultures, but just looking AT the differences. Ignoring the WHY is the basis of racism.
    Our definitions of racism are at odds, then. In this world, we are far more alike than we are different. That is why I never buy into the "you'll never know what it's like to be a different race/gender/religion/class." I'll never know exactly what it's like to be anyone else on Earth, but that doesn't mean that I can't identify with anyone else or understand their viewpoint. I don't see racism as a form of "ignoring the why and focusing on the is." I see as "believing that which is not so." There are myriad reasons why that could be.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #153
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    why certainly Pollyanna... and why don't you go ahead and tell us all that we've never had a female or minority as president because of skill level or message instead of the fact that covert racism still runs deep in the US as well....

    racism = ignorance, ignorance of why, how and what. I've regularly heard white people get thier panties tied into knots about things like HBCs and Kwanzaa just because they don't understand WHY.

    And the blind man won't know it's an elephant unless he's felt one before (why don't people get my cultural references?!?!? )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #154
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #155
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    why certainly Pollyanna... and why don't you go ahead and tell us all that we've never had a female or minority as president because of skill level or message instead of the fact that covert racism still runs deep in the US as well....
    Black people are underrepresented at higher levels of education, and a lot of it has to do with the primary education system in the United States (and not just in poorer urban areas, but the entire way it's funded and administrated). Are there lingering effects of past racism at play here? Certainly. Does that mean that it's "covert racism" now? Not necessarily (and probably not, in most cases). Women are slightly OVERREPRESENTED at higher levels of education, and I think we'll see a female POTUS in our lifetimes. However, as I've stated before, it's the policies that matter when it comes to this positions, not the person's race. It's not Pollyanna-ish to blame some issues on things other than overt or covert racism, is it? Surely, black people have issues that affect them that have nothing to do with racism, don't they? And women have issues that affect them that have nothing to do with sexism? "Covert racism" cannot be used as a catch-all term for inequality.


    racism = ignorance, ignorance of why, how and what. I've regularly heard white people get thier panties tied into knots about things like HBCs and Kwanzaa just because they don't understand WHY.
    I would argue that racists are ignorant, but that racism doesn't simply equal ignorance. And why would a historically black college bother anyone? If they accept government funding and don't accept other races, then they should be abolished. If they simply have a predominantly black student body and faculty, that's fine by me. I believe that private institutions should be able to discriminate all they want, so a private all-black (or all-white) university would offend my sensibilities, but I wouldn't vote to abolish it. This is SUPPOSED to be a free country. BTW, I don't know one person, black or white, who gives a crap about Kwanzaa.


    And the blind man won't know it's an elephant unless he's felt one before (why don't people get my cultural references?!?!? )
    I'd actually never read that before.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #156
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Black people are underrepresented at higher levels of education, and a lot of it has to do with the primary education system in the United States (and not just in poorer urban areas, but the entire way it's funded and administrated). Are there lingering effects of past racism at play here? Certainly. Does that mean that it's "covert racism" now? Not necessarily (and probably not, in most cases). Women are slightly OVERREPRESENTED at higher levels of education, and I think we'll see a female POTUS in our lifetimes. However, as I've stated before, it's the policies that matter when it comes to this positions, not the person's race. It's not Pollyanna-ish to blame some issues on things other than overt or covert racism, is it? Surely, black people have issues that affect them that have nothing to do with racism, don't they? And women have issues that affect them that have nothing to do with sexism? "Covert racism" cannot be used as a catch-all term for inequality.




    I would argue that racists are ignorant, but that racism doesn't simply equal ignorance. And why would a historically black college bother anyone? If they accept government funding and don't accept other races, then they should be abolished. If they simply have a predominantly black student body and faculty, that's fine by me. I believe that private institutions should be able to discriminate all they want, so a private all-black (or all-white) university would offend my sensibilities, but I wouldn't vote to abolish it. This is SUPPOSED to be a free country. BTW, I don't know one person, black or white, who gives a crap about Kwanzaa.




    I'd actually never read that before.
    Let all the flowers bloom.
    To object to a minority college is pure racism.

    The lingering effect of past racism, pure mercury?
    A Freudian slip, my friend.

    A lingering effect = a thing is not in the past.
    If you linger in the room, you are present in the room.

  7. #157
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Let all the flowers bloom.
    To object to a minority college is pure racism.

    The lingering effect of past racism, pure mercury?
    A Freudian slip, my friend.

    A lingering effect = a thing is not in the past.
    If you linger in the room, you are present in the room.
    As whatever pointed out, colour blindness (= equalization) is racism.
    To turn the tables is a cosy way to get off the hook.
    The politicians do it all the time.

  8. #158
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The lingering effect of past racism, pure mercury?
    A Freudian slip, my friend.

    A lingering effect = a thing is not in the past.
    If you linger in the room, you are present in the room.
    Yes, saying that there are 'lingering effects of racism' does indeed affirm that there is racism. And it is inconsistent to affirm the presence of racism but deny that it has effects. In order to be consistent with the position that there is no 'covert racism', then one must deny the existence of racism altogether.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #159
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Yes, saying that there are 'lingering effects of racism' does indeed affirm that there is racism. And it is inconsistent to affirm the presence of racism but deny that it has effects. In order to be consistent with the position that there is no 'covert racism', then one must deny the existence of racism altogether.
    True.
    You are a good person

  10. #160
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Keeping this relevant to MBTI, this site gives some interesting tidbits on statistics of African Americans:
    Here are some interesting facts about ISTJ personality types. If you'd like to find out if you're this type, you can take the genuine Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® online now by clicking on the image to the left. You can take different versions of the test, including the expanded Step II with the 20 subscales. Look at the sample reports before you decide.
    · Among the four highest in college GPA.
    · Overrepresented among bank officers and financial managers.
    · One of the top 2 types among industrial/technical teachers.
    · Higher on deductive reasoning than dominant Thinking or Feeling types, with other dominant Sensing types.
    · Academic subjects preferred: math, practical skills.
    · More frequent among African Americans.
    · In national sample, highest of all types in liking work environments where "Everything is done by the book" and one of 3 highest types in liking "Toeing the line"; lowest of all types in liking work environments with "People of different backgrounds."
    · In national sample, dissatisfied with "Promotions" in their jobs.
    · Overrepresented among both male and female small business owners compared with national sample.
    · With ISFJs, far outnumber dominant extraverted Sensing types among chronic pain patients.
    · Overrepresented among men with chronic pain - accounted for 38% of sample studied.
    · Overrepresented among men at risk for heart attack - more than 3.5 times the proportion in Myers' high school sample.
    · One of two most overrepresented female types in a substance abuse program.
    This statistical background either confirms that environment creates type, or if genetic how totally screwed the western culture is in keeping their most productive people down merely due to skin color.

    Looking at the bolded information, you tell who is losing out when it comes to racism. As for Obama, the African American community is voting their objective conscious. Do you trully think they would be voting for an African American Republican, whose platform does not cater to their needs? I take offense to the assumptions being made and realize the continued ignorance of Americans when it comes to race. Can you tell me that the White Democrats are voting their objective conscsious in wanting Clinton as the presumptive nominee when she lost the primaries. Anyone considering voting for McCain that makes less than 75,000.00 or less is clearing voting with prejudicial sentiments.

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