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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    So the gun pornographers on Typology Central are inciting Australians to break the law.

    It is plain Typology Central is being used and abused by the followers and members of the USA National Rifle Association to incite Australians to break the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    To be irrationally frightened is called paranoia.

    And it is a mistake to think of paranoia as a personal problem in the USA, for paranoia is a social problem in the USA.
    Agreed. In fact, it's a mistake to think of paranoia as an American problem at all. It seems to have gotten halfway around the world.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  2. #142

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    I like guns, and I enjoy shooting them. While I agree that there need to be some checks on the right to bear arms, I strongly believe in the right itself.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  3. #143
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    Agreed. In fact, it's a mistake to think of paranoia as an American problem at all. It seems to have gotten halfway around the world.
    We do have our insecurities, it's true.

    We have an irrational fear of invasion from the north. This has some credibility as we were extensively bombed from the north during WW II. However we were lucky and we weren't invaded.

    Our insecurity has led us to rely heavily on the ANZUS Military Treaty with the USA.

    And it's become plain the USA doesn't take the treaty with the same seriousness as we do, but the USA is quite prepared to exploit our insecurities.

    However on the bright side, we are in an enviable strategic position which gives us plenty of time to work things out towards a happy ending.

  4. #144
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    How common are home invasions in the US?
    It depends on the region. We had one in my neck of the woods last Tuesday. Two guys armed with AK-47s hit a house in an affluent semi-rural area that was occupied by a couple. Keep in mind that this is California, which has pretty much the strictest gun laws in the nation.

    Bad guys tend to do home invasions more in rural/semi rural areas because there are fewer cops and the response times are significantly longer than in a metropolitan area. It also reduces the likelihood of the neighbors noticing and calling the cops.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  5. #145
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Your revolution was a bourgeois revolution. And ever since you have done everything you can to stop a proletarian revolution.

    Everyman Revolution is propaganda taught to American school children.

    The American bourgeoisie have controlled America ever since the revolution, and have expended blood and treasure to make sure there is no proletarian revolution, to make sure there there is no everyman revolution.
    I think you missed the point of my post.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  6. #146
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    I think the bolded is THE point for you, I understand that, I really do. I think this is the nature of why we are having this discussion. Why can't rules be true and why do people pick and choose when to follow these rules? Killing people is bad right? *puts down $20 bet that MP would kill someone to save his own life or perhaps the life of his wife/kids/family*.
    I'd be the last person to make that sort of claim. It is entirely too deontological. I fact, that's what I think is the problem here. Most of what you are saying is applicable to deontological ethics, but not teleological ethics, of which utilitarianism is a kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    There are always exceptions, for most people, to these "rules" that we follow. Yeah I don't like the government taxing me, but I do benefit from being a citizen and besides I have about ZERO chance of changing that. So we rationalize and cope.
    There are exceptions to rules of that nature. The nice thing about consequential ethics is that you can start with one simple foundation and then walk it back with epistemology the rest of the way. It has far more flexibility as such.

    And I think live and live is problematic in large part because it's that sort of rule. It is, in its own way, like "thou shall not kill".

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Utilitarian? May I suggest Preference Utilitarianism as something to look into, if you haven't already? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preference_utilitarianism Google ---> R.M. Hare.

    "A utilitarian of this sort could therefore argue that respect for autonomy is one of the most important factors that goes into promoting `the general welfare'. In other words, to maximize the general welfare we would normally need to maximize the degree of autonomy had by individuals. But then, if to do the right thing usually requires maximizing the general welfare by maximizing autonomy, we could permissibly override a person's autonomy only in very exceptional circumstances -- specifically, when no other avenue is available for protecting the welfare of that individual or other members of the community." ~ Nick Trakakis
    Even John Stuart Mill, possibly the most famous utilitarian, attempt to make special conditions for individual liberty. In the end, I still agree with Jeremy Bentham more than him, though. As utilitarianism starts piling those conditions on, it starts losing site of its point, digressing from what it used as its foundational good and jamming lots of little problematic, deontological qualifiers in its normally consequentialist system.

    Regarding your specific reference, I simply do not see a reason to belief that individual autonomy could be the foundation itself. Regarding preferences, people do have individual preferences for what makes them happy or sad, and making that the goal, I do advocate a form of utilitarianism that accounts for those difference. That is not the same as maximizing autonomy, because it does not necessarily follow that an individual is best at getting what they want for themselves, or that an individual can maximize their preferences with their own efforts alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Such is life. There will always be conflicts of these sorts. As I'm getting on the train someone pushes past me to get on board first and I think "why is this guy being an asshole?" Yet in his mind *OMG I'm so fired if I'm late to work* Agreed it is indeed impossible to go about life without affecting others and violating their consent. In this regards I ask, what "matters" to the most amount of people most of the time? Does it really "matter" that this guy was rude vs. his potentially losing his job? Chances are, in that context I'm gonna empathize with him and pivot in my head.
    It matters a small amount, and should be treated as such. It is better to try to find a way to treat these things quantitatively than just qualitatively.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    The Golden Rule aka Live and Let Live aka Don't be an Asshole seems to be a good general rule to follow, just saying.

    When in doubt rules don't really matter because you can and will do whatcha gotta do, for most people.
    When in doubt, a person still makes a decision essentially because, at that time, they presume it to be a good one, based on some scheme of understanding the world, they just may not think about it that way. As a person in that situation, my ethical ideas will still inform my behavior in some way, and as a third party, I can still analyze them by way of an ethical scheme regardless of what they were thinking about at that time.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I like guns, and I enjoy shooting them. While I agree that there need to be some checks on the right to bear arms, I strongly believe in the right itself.
    So why is the USA National Rifle Association telling Australians in writing we have the Right to Bear Arms when we have our own Constitution and are not beholden to the Constitution of the USA.

    Do you think we are part of the USA and subject to your Constitution or do you think we are a free Parliamentary Democracy?

    And while I am at it - why do the followers and members of the NRA use Typology Central to incite Australians to break democratic Australian law?

  8. #148
    morose bourgeoisie
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    of all the millions of possible things to obsess about, why has my country chosen guns and football?
    Really, it's obsurd.

  9. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    So why is the USA National Rifle Association telling Australians in writing we have the Right to Bear Arms when we have our own Constitution and are not beholden to the Constitution of the USA.

    Do you think we are part of the USA and subject to your Constitution or do you think we are a free Parliamentary Democracy?

    And while I am at it - why do the followers and members of the NRA use Typology Central to incite Australians to break democratic Australian law?
    First, your response to that post is a non-sequitur.

    Second, you cannot ask me to explain these things any more than you can ask me to explain why the Moon is made of cheese.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanton Moore View Post
    of all the millions of possible things to obsess about, why has my country chosen guns and football?
    Really, it's obsurd.
    With the exception of guns my country also obsesses about football, drugs, cars, mobile phones, homes and property, stocks and shares, holidays, alcohol, money, pornography, violence, work and TV.

    What do they all have in common?

    They each induce a trance. Each induces a particular kind of trance. And these trances flow into one another all during the day. And interestingly these are socially mediated and socially sanctioned trances. They are largely trances out of our control. And this is how we like it. We want to flow along together without embarrassement, without interruption, and without thinking critically about what we are doing.

    We have grown up absurd and so naturally lead absurd lives.

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