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  1. #11
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Number 2 for me. To murder or take someone's life the victim must already have experience in life and be conscious, neither of which a fetus has/is. Probably doing them a favor in today's world anyhow.
    Ha, I agree on both points, even the pessimistic closing one. My own view is if the little dude isn't counted on the census, s/he's not really with it yet.

  2. #12
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    Presupposing that pro-choice leads to a decision
    What?

    and also presupposing the fetus isn't a life, then that's correct. How are abortions legal when murder isn't legal and murdering a pregnant woman could earn you two counts?
    Because I don't think a little cluster of cells is an actual human being.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Because I don't think a little cluster of cells is an actual human being.
    The law shows a double standard - select abortions are legal yet murdering the mom while pregnant could get you a double murder charge.

  4. #14
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    The law shows a double standard - select abortions are legal yet murdering the mom while pregnant could get you a double murder charge.
    There is variance involved, can you not see it?

  5. #15
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    The law shows a double standard - select abortions are legal yet murdering the mom while pregnant could get you a double murder charge.
    You mean like women dying due to abortions? That's like charging a surgeon for murder because his patient died on the operating table from a risky surgery (and abortions aren't even that risky early on).
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  6. #16
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    I never understood how the same pro-life republicans could be pro-death when it comes to youngsters and war.
    I can. I am sort of the opposite side of the coin.

    I am very pro choice, and also anti-death penalty. My reasoning for this is memory. A fetus (and infants but they aren't included here) have infantile amnesia, and while they can learn, don't form recallable memories. As such, they are essentially blanks slates with no worth attached to them; only potential. When it comes to inmates, they do have memories attached to them, and I find it cruel to end someones like when they have so much history attached to them. There are some criminals who truly are cold and have no remorse whatsoever that deserve to die, but I just can't bring myself to a rational reasoning to kill them. It's just a step too far, and the psychological aspect of knowing when you will die seems pretty painful.

    Generally though I shy away from the death penalty discussion because I can never articulate my reasoning behind it well. Ultimately though, the death penalty isn't high up on my list of political issues. I don't like it and would like it changed, but if it's done peacefully using barbiturates and stuff that render it more or less painless as far as we can understand, then I can tollerate it for now.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    There is variance involved, can you not see it?
    It shouldn't be two murders if the law doesn't consider the fetus a person, which it provisionally doesn't because certain abortions are legal.

  8. #18
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I can. I am sort of the opposite side of the coin.
    Being pro-war and anti-abortion is inconsistent and incompatible with unequivocally supporting life, as pro-life republicans claim to do.

  9. #19
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entpersonal View Post
    Being pro-war and anti-abortion is incompatible with supporting life, as pro-life republicans claim to do.
    Oh I didn't notice the end bit of your post. Sorry. Yeah I suppose I don't count then as I would not consider myself pro-war by any means.

    Since when have political views been fully consistent though? HA! That'll be the day.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member entpersonal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Since when have political views been fully consistent though? HA! That'll be the day.
    Fair enough.

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