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  1. #21
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Serbia?
    Ok technically that is supposed to be Bratislava, Slovakia,
    Ah, I suppose you are american?
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #22
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Can't find it on Amazon.
    There are a few, but http://www.amazon.com/Third-World-Fi...0601821&sr=1-2 is the most well known.

    You can arrive at the interpretation that while it is possible for an economically free country to be oppressive, countries that lack economic freedom are even more likely to have an authoritarian political regime.
    Well, yes. Unfree countries will tend to be unfree. It requires a specific type of politically unfree country to create an exception specifically for economics. That's because economic freedom is, again, an extension of political will.

    Yet again, can you name a single politically free country that is in the "mostly unfree" category? While economic freedom is an insufficient condition for political freedom, it is a necessary one.
    Democracies like Greece and India? Perhaps you could give me your defintion for "politically free".

    The measurements themselves are not subjective, but their interpretations can be. The Index of Economic Freedom clearly outlines what is being measured and how it is measured, for example, government spending is one criterion of economic freedom. There is nothing subjective about how much each government spent and what percentage of the GDP that constitutes. However, the interpretation of whether or not government spending makes a nation's economy more or less free is indeed open to subjective interpretation.
    If you believe this then there is no point in arguing the nature of the report.

    Government spending makes it less free. It's easily regressed from the report (just graph Canada, NZ and Aus, then look up reported government spending). I checked to make sure, but it's easily predicted by the source of the report. Of course, the whole thing is silly. In terms of government spending, I have more economic freedom in Canada than an American would have. Spending is similar, but my money goes towards medical care. Of course, I don't know the algorithm, but the top tax rate is apparently 29% in Canada. Mine is a lot higher than that, so hopefully they are only using tax burden. You should take a look at Denmark's government spending, bwhahahah. 0.5/100!

    That stuff is priceless.

  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Out of curiosity, who else knows what Index of Economic Freedom's criteria are?

    EDIT: Or, who has checked, since the information is also right there on the site?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If I am reading this correctly, France is ranked 70, which makes this entire question seem comical.

    The answer is definitely yes.

    I mean... I have no particular desire to live in Argentina, but I wouldn't strongly oppose it, and they put that country at an atrocious 166. On the other hand, if you want to live the high life at number 27, way past Portugal, France, and Italy, you can move to Botswana.
    I've never been to Botswana, and know very little about it. Maybe it's nice. I can't remember the last time I heard about some horrible civil war in Botswana, so that's probably good, too. It sounds ok from this description:

    A mid-sized country of just over two million people, Botswana is one of the most sparsely populated countries in the world. Botswana was one of the poorest countries in Africa when it gained independence from the United Kingdom in 1966, with a GDP per capita of about US$70. Botswana has since transformed itself, becoming one of the fastest-growing economies in the world to a GDP (purchasing power parity) per capita of about $14,000,[1] and a high gross national income, possibly the fourth-largest in Africa, giving the country a modest standard of living.[7] The country, being a member of the African Union, also has a strong tradition as arepresentative democracy and has the second highest Human Development Index of continental Sub-Saharan African countries.
    I'm more bothered by the fact that America is not #1 on a list of free countries. I hope the OP is not a traitor, a member of the secret world government, or worse, a Canadian.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  5. #25
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I'm more bothered by the fact that America is not #1 on a list of free countries. I hope the OP is not a traitor, a member of the secret world government, or worse, a Canadian.
    Canadians are a red herring... it's the commie red Chinese that is manipulating it. See the top city? Been Top city for 20 years, through multiple "model enhancements". Be afraid! Cut government spending immediately, be #1!

  6. #26
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Canada and New Zealand are more socialized than the U.S., though.

    By the way, I think you said you might have been looking for something like this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Progress_Index

    Lots of other indexes are out there, apparently. It also links to a Quality of Life index at the bottom. I'm too lazy to link to that.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I've never been to Botswana, and know very little about it. Maybe it's nice. I can't remember the last time I heard about some horrible civil war in Botswana, so that's probably good, too. It sounds ok from this description
    Unfortunately, quality relative to sub-saharan Africa does not say much. So let's look at it this way.

    Human Development Index

    Botswana: 0.634
    Argentina: 0.811

    Gini index.

    Botswana: 63
    Argentina: 44

    GDP PC:

    Botswana: $17,101
    Argentina: $18,582

    Hey, Botswana almost matches Argentina there.

    But Argentina is 139 places behind Botswana according to the Heritage Foundation's index.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Lots of other indexes are out there, apparently. It also links to a Quality of Life index at the bottom. I'm too lazy to link to that.
    Yes, there are tons of indexes out there, and be wary of them. I say the more you can extrapolate from simple figures, the better. I don't have much trust for these really elaborate, really interpretive indexes which usually have some kind of agenda behind them.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #28
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Unfortunately, quality relative to sub-saharan Africa does not say much. So let's look at it this way.

    Human Development Index

    Botswana: 0.634
    Argentina: 0.811

    Gini index.

    Botswana: 63
    Argentina: 44

    GDP PC:

    Botswana: $17,101
    Argentina: $18,582

    Hey, Botswana almost matches Argentina there.

    But Argentina is 139 places behind Botswana according to the Heritage Foundation's index.



    Yes, there are tons of indexes out there, and be wary of them. I say the more you can extrapolate from simple figures, the better. I don't have much trust for these really elaborate, really interpretive indexes which usually have some kind of agenda behind them.

    Me neither, not at least until I really understand what it is they are measuring, which I'm usually too lazy to do. I don't particularly car if oil or gas is nationalized, and I'm not sure why that's necessarily a terrible thing if it is, though I could be ignorant on the subject. But I thought that thing about Botswana was interesting.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #29
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Canada and New Zealand are more socialized than the U.S., though..
    There is no contradiction between social progress and economic freedom. Carefully controlled social welfare institutions provide citizens with maximal opportunities to be as productive as possible in the work-force, that is a compelling argument for the unemployment benefits and programs that help the low income workers gain marketable skills.

    To illustrate that point, consider Bangladesh's experiment with radical neo-liberal reforms where nearly all institutions of social welfare were suspended. The nation reached a 98.5% employment rate in 2001 at the expense of massive brain drain as highly skilled professionals were forced to accept jobs that they were vastly overqualified for. The same fate befell many other Southeast Asian nation that followed this path and this scenario stands in sharp contrast with the situation in the more civilized, Western countries. When a computer programmer, an accountant or a mechanical engineer is laid off in the U.S, Canada, Germany, Australia or Sweden, he is free to take all the time he needs in order to find another job befitting of his skill level. By these merits, the unemployment benefits maximize the employees' economic liberties by giving them opportunities to make the greatest possible contributions to the market. Canada and New Zealand are ranked ahead of the United States on the Index of Economic freedom not despite that they are more "socialized" but because of it, I covered that in my blog lately.

    http://randommeanderings123.blogspot...market-is.html



    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Unfortunately, quality relative to sub-saharan Africa does not say much. So let's look at it this way.

    Human Development Index

    Botswana: 0.634
    Argentina: 0.811

    Gini index.

    Botswana: 63
    Argentina: 44

    GDP PC:

    Botswana: $17,101
    Argentina: $18,582

    Hey, Botswana almost matches Argentina there.

    But Argentina is 139 places behind Botswana according to the Heritage Foundation's index.

    Despite the vast differences bet ween Botswana and Argentina on the Index of Economic Freedom, there is one fundamental similarity between the two. Both countries were destitute prior to 1980 and experienced a period of prolonged growth propelled by reforms that achieved economic freedom. Despite that Argentina's reforms were carried out very rapidly and that resulted in a massive economic crisis that undermined many of the nation's previous economic achievements, Carlos Menem was correct that Argentina indeed became a first world country. By contrast, Botswana's economic growth and enhancement of economic liberty took place more gradually and now they're roughly at the point where Argentina is now, after its economic collapse.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #30
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Why does it seem inaccurate?
    Despite the very high taxes and bureaucracy and corruption levels, entrepreneurs are free to do pretty much anything.

    I think people tend to see South America governments as being somewhat similar (excluding Chile), and considering the nationalization trend that started with Venezuela, then Bolivia, then Argentina to a lesser extent, there's a big left phobia when it comes to Brazil.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Massive crime is a serious problem in Brazil and it is one of the few countries with wider wealth disparities than they are in the U.S.
    True. On the bright side, we don't have terrorism and frequent shootings - threats I personally find much scarier than a robber that would leave me alone once I give him the material stuff he wants.

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