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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default Why I Am Against Socialism

    First, I want to say that I am not against Socialism because it limits socio-economic freedom, thus detracting from personal empowerment and rendering it to "Caesar" - it does, but that's not the main point.

    Socialism is a political-economic system that is ambivalent or even indifferent toward human value systems. It is not immoral, as with communism and fascism, it is simply amoral. It creates a moral vacuum in society which is waiting to be filled with something else. And what that 'something else' is will depend on whatever extremist causes are lurking in the political background.

    The present values vacuum will be filled by Islam.

    While various special interest groups vie to fill the values vacuum in the US created by media networks and their political pawns in Washington D.C., these are not faith-based groups. LGBT, for example, is not faith-based. Animal rights activist groups and tree-hugging groups are not faith-based. They are emotion-based. And their emotions are not strong enough to lead them to those suicidal acts of rebellion which cause much havoc and grief around the world. The activities of these groups rend societies along political lines, but not really along social lines, because those lines were already drawn centuries ago via the Judeo-Christian ethos.

    I'll finish this later. Things are getting nuts around here anyway.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    First, I want to say that I am not against Socialism because it limits socio-economic freedom, thus detracting from personal empowerment and rendering it to "Caesar" - it does, but that's not the main point.
    How So?

    Socialism is a political-economic system that is ambivalent or even indifferent toward human value systems. It is not immoral, as with communism and fascism, it is simply amoral. It creates a moral vacuum in society which is waiting to be filled with something else. And what that 'something else' is will depend on whatever extremist causes are lurking in the political background.
    Why?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    How So?



    Why?
    Thank you for your interest in my unfinished treatise. I'll ponder these questions while I sit here alone at work with nothing better to do.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Thank you for your interest in my unfinished treatise. I'll ponder these questions while I sit here alone at work with nothing better to do.
    What if your boss is truly a socialist and gets angry and fires you for writing antisocialistic things on the internet.
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  5. #5
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    This is sort of like a definition of socialism, but not. People mean so many different things by socialism that a straight forward definition would be nice.

    So I'll make two comments that are not dependent on what exactly socialism is supposed to be.

    I think at the ideological level all socio-economic ideas are inspired by human values and are some attempt to apply them in real life. Socialism is no different.

    So, a system can only be ambivalent in so far as it strays away from ideology and descends into the practicalities of power politics. Unfortunately all systems, no matter how they are rationalized, run a risk of becoming this way. I do not feel, however, that they all face equal risk.

    But I don't know where to start with Islam taking any socialist places over. I don't know what places you have in mind as socialist, but I do not see western Europe, or the East Asian democracies, or Canada, becoming countries with Islamic authorities.
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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is sort of like a definition of socialism, but not. People mean so many different things by socialism that a straight forward definition would be nice.

    So I'll make two comments that are not dependent on what exactly socialism is supposed to be.

    I think at the ideological level all socio-economic ideas are inspired by human values and are some attempt to apply them in real life. Socialism is no different.

    So, a system can only be ambivalent in so far as it strays away from ideology and descends into the practicalities of power politics. Unfortunately all systems, no matter how they are rationalized, run a risk of becoming this way. I do not feel, however, that they all face equal risk.

    But I don't know where to start with Islam taking any socialist places over. I don't know what places you have in mind as socialist, but I do not see western Europe, or the East Asian democracies, or Canada, becoming countries with Islamic authorities.
    It really doesn't matter if socialism IS amoral or if it is only perceived as amoral. However, there is a lot to be learned from Hegel about communitarianism, and how socialism detracts from it.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  7. #7
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Animal rights activist groups and tree-hugging groups are not faith-based. They are emotion-based.

    I don't see the difference. To me, faith is believing in something because it makes you feel better or comforts you. Doesn't Christianity stress loving God with all your heart? That seems emotion-based to me. So it seems like the preference for one over the other is just because Christianity has been around a lot longer than PETA (who admittedly, irritate me, but they don't scare me as "eco-terrorists" or anything).

    I guess to consider whether it destroys morality, we would have to consider what morality is good for. What is the purpose of morality, in your view? I take a utilitarian view, more or less. I suspect your understanding of morality places a lot of importance on free will, and you perhaps believe that morality cannot exist if the the sphere of moral action is not carried out at the level of the individual.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  8. #8
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    It really doesn't matter if socialism IS amoral or if it is only perceived as amoral.
    I am honestly not sure what part of my post that is a response to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    However, there is a lot to be learned from Hegel about communitarianism, and how socialism detracts from it.
    I have not read what you are referring to, but with cursory consideration, it strikes me as odd to say that socialism and communitarianism would have to be at odds. They seem fairly compatible.

    Of course, even if it did undermine communitarianism, a case would still have to be made that such a result is a bad thing.
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  9. #9
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Socialism is "amoral" in the same way capitalism is, in that they are both economic systems with no (inherent) regards for values.

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    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I am honestly not sure what part of my post that is a response to.



    I have not read what you are referring to, but with cursory consideration, it strikes me as odd to say that socialism and communitarianism would have to be at odds. They seem fairly compatible.

    Of course, even if it did undermine communitarianism, a case would still have to be made that such a result is a bad thing.
    In understanding the distinction between communitarianism and socialism it's important not to paraphrase, or to "translate" Hegel's synthesis into modern (e.g., Rawlsian) terms. Hegel was an individualist.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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